Accessibility Education and Outreach Working Group (EOWG) Teleconference

11 Sep 2020


Sharron, brentb, kevin, krisannekinney, Vicki, Crystal, Shawn, Hidde, Kenzo, Mark, Daniel, JasonMcKee, shadi
Laura, Andrew, Amanda, Greta, Estella


<scribe> Scribe: Sharron


Round of introducntions for new partiicpants.

<shawn> [ notes Shadi will be 30 mins late to due to online conference ]

<shawn> Crystal introduction https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2020JulSep/0034.html

How People with Disabilities Use the Web

Kevin: The resource has been around a while. At its core it is a series of stories of people and includes a pice about how people might adapt and tools they may use. It is a bit of a "wall of text" and needs a bit of refresh of the mobile and cognitive issues.

<kevin> https://github.com/w3c/wai-people-use-web/wiki/2020-Update-Project-Page

Kevin: Some light updates a few years ago but still felt the need to address some unaddressed issues, inlcuding table tuse and how to weave that into stories and soem congitive issues to be integrated. A sense of how to make the stories more personal and life-like. Taking data and making it human and see how we might make the stories more engaging.
... May inlcude quotes (would need to make those actually real) Since the WAI redesign, we have shoehorned some of the resources into the new framework and want to consdier how to make it fit the new design more natuarally.
... Also considering videos that may come in march 2021 so we want to consdier how to leave space for the potential videos. The audience we beleive to be alot of people new to accessibility. Want to introduce to designers who need to understand the barriers that can be introduced. Want to be heard by professionals beyond the developers on a team.
... Secondary audiences include testers, advocates, managers, etc. Do we want to go through the whole plan or is the summary sufficient?

Shawn: Hoping we had a chance to glance through it so don't need to go all through it. This will be the start of our squirrel review.

Kevin: So we want to start looking at requirements and plans with those goals in mind. We are looking to think of an improed representation of these valuable resources.

<shawn> Sharron: people have said how useful this document it -- so important to update it and improve it

Kevin: It tells the human story which is what actually engages ploicy makers and leaders that I need to convince, Bringing that to life is so important which is why I volunteered.

Shawn: Crystal and Jason, it is always useful to have new persepctive on resources that we have lived with for years.

<Daniel> S/this document it/this document is/

Jason: I get this entirely since we employ people with disabilities I have seen how seeing lived experince changes the conversaton for our clients.

Brent: Anyone have initial comments?

<shawn> Sharron: [tangent] Crystal and Jason - curious if you have seem the resources on the WAI website?

KrisAnne: I had to step away for a minute and want to add that this is an important resource that is a bit overwhelming in it current state. We use personas widely at ETS and we are using these types of resources at ETS and I give this resource to people and often hear "wow that is a lot of information" So if we can make this a bit less overwhelming it is important to make it usable. I am grateful

it is being takenup for improvement - thank you Kevin.

<Vicki> The requirements analysis and project plan looks good to me

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say + personas, videos, quotes -- + other personas COGA, mobile, AccessLearn?, Publishing?) and to note stories in UT and to say progressive disclosure

Shawn: Chairs and I did usability testing in 2017 and one of the most common things was that people asked for short, succint presentation *except* with the user stories. In this case, they seem to want and have the pacience for longer narratives. So we may want to have a bit of summary for those who skim but not to be afraid of the details for those who want and need them.Progrssive disclosure.
... also had different groups do extended personas. In general in user centered design you try to focus on maybe top three user types. But in WAI there may be a need for personas that represent issues related to specific topics like cognitive, mobile, certain disability types.
... Since we are considering videos and quotes, we need to balance that perosnas are meant to feel real but be fictional.

Kevin: One of the things I am thinking about the overwhelming nature is to breaking up the information so as not to lose the depth of the information but section it in a way that makes it more usable and less intimidating.
... about how to use the quotes, I am very hesitant in making the *not* real. It can be disenfranchising and also based on assumptions that may not be accurate.

<shadi> +1 to realistic quote

Brent: Would we attribute it to the real people or just have the personas speak the words of a person with that disbility?

Kevin: I think the latter

Brent: At Pearson, we have tried to include in our analysis of WCAG to inlcude quotes from people with various disabilities. Now that I think about it, I do not know how accurate it is since we did not have the quote come from an actual person with that disability.
... and this may relate to what Shawn said about while maintaining that they are fictional while being real.

Jason: Drawbacks to using real people?

Kevin: Personas tend to try to aggregate a lot of research data into one representation. Want to show as broad as possible the various aspects that contribute to the user experience.

Sharron: I will make a survey so we can get all participants the chance to weigh in.

<Vicki> +1 to Kevin

<shadi> +1 to Kevin


<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/teach-advocate/accessibility-icon-set

Shawn: Open the discussion about first impressions, what si working what might need further work

<Vicki> Ear: a) ok, b) ok c)

<Vicki> c) inner looks like a question mark

<shadi> +1 to Vicki's comments, excactly my thought

<Vicki> sure, q+

Mark: The ear icons, a is the best in my mind, strongest by far

Vicki: Both a and b are good to me, c looks a bit like a ?

<Zakim> kevin, you wanted to say a is a bit too long and doesn’t tilt

Brent: Jump in any time about your first impressions Crystal and Jason.

Kevin: Unlike Sharron, icons resonate with me and I see them all the time. The original ear feels longer and thinner and the tilt is helpful in making it seem more earlike. a seems to need just a bit more rounded and tilted to be working well. b seems a bit like a footprint

<shawn> +1 to Kevin that first ear lobe not eough, and b & c it's too much

Shadi: I like how these are coming along, I have not seen them in a while. When they are together, we know it is an ear but in isolation it is a bit less clear.

Kenzo: There is sometimes a strikethrough to indicate that the sense is missing. It may be a route to consider. There is the negative aspect however. It may be beyond the need for tweaks to reconsider the approach
... Knowing that this is related to disability may influence its understanding as well

Crystal: I am now seeing the foorprint in b and lightbulb in c. What about adding a bit of defintition to define the ear canal a bit and bringing the lobe up a bit. I had a picture to share, shallI share my screen.

<shawn> https://www.iconexperience.com/o_collection/icons/?icon=ear

Kenzo: I may have made it more complex than needed
... happy to give it another try

Shawn: Remember that we are looking at this fairly large. On the site they will be smaller

Brent: When Shadi mentioned seeing the icon in isolation, I started looking at public ear icons and most do not look like it without context

<shawn> ( similar to previous iterations https://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=ear+icon&client=firefox-b-1-d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig8bGInuHrAhUuAp0JHZO6B0gQ7Al6BAgKEHQ&biw=1280&bih=551#imgrc=3UDWCJsdZqn3_M)

<shawn> ( other https://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=ear+icon&client=firefox-b-1-d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig8bGInuHrAhUuAp0JHZO6B0gQ7Al6BAgKEHQ&biw=1280&bih=551#imgrc=IEpFZKYF1_IV2M)

Jason: a was clearly an ear, on the b and c not so much. The advantge of seeing for the first time, there was no ambiguity that a was an ear.

Kenzo: So I will work on 5a and the next version should address all these concerns and pretty sure they will work fine

Shawn: OK let's scroll up to #4, the eye

<kevin> New eye looks good

<MarkPalmer> New eye looks good to me

<krisannekinney> looks good to me

<brentb> +1 to eye

<shadi> +1 to new eye

Shawn: OK, let's look then at #2, speech
... to remind us of the need to communicate that the speech icon had to go beyond a mouth and included the sound waves instead of just the body part - in this case mouth or lips. Any comments on that additional aspect?
... OK with sound waves?

Kevin: It needs the sound waves and they are not problematic
... but the brain inside the head is kind of similar in addiing another dimension so it is OK

<shawn> Shadi: -- prefer mouth

<shawn> Sharron: Too ambiguous. lots related to mouth rather than just spech.

Shadi: I feel a bit differently, since the sound waves could also be interpreted as sound.

Kenzo: When I think of a mouth it would be someone trying to give you a kiss. A bit disconcerting. Beyond just the body part it needs to draw a line of connection to what is the disability.

Shawn: I looked at different mouths and Kenzo is right about the kisses. Could not find a suitable substitute.

Shadi: Really liking this progress, thank you so much Kenzo

Kenso: Yes be aware that icons are meant to communicate quickly and glad these can be useful

Shawn: And we will release these to creative commons so we expect they will be used a lot
... so other than the ear, we are happy with the other icons and grateful for this work. Propose that we accept all except the ear

<shadi> +1

<brentb> +1

<kevin> +1

<hdv> +1

<krisannekinney> +1

<shawn> +1

Sharron: +1

<shawn> Crystal: +1

WCAG 3.0 Public working draft

Shawn: This is an attempt to get the standard formerly known as Silver out as a draft. EO will have a lot of comments on this. Some will have to do with the appropriateness of some of the material as a TR doc
... If any of us are AG participants as well, you can comment on their survey

<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/158

Brent: Will we comment as a group or as individuals?

Shawn: We don't have time to comment as a group before they publish the draft but individuals can comment on GitHub

<shawn> Sharron: Silver Group has engaged with EOWG, and wanted us to work with them. (Think they maybe wanted us even more involvoed).

Sharron: Once the draft is released we should absolutely comment as a group.

Brent: The purpose of this is to inform EO and community that this is coming?

Shawn: Yes and to let you know that if your collegues are in AG they can comment in the survey. And you ill have the oportunity to communicate in a couple of weeks to frame the outreach about the public draft and the fact that it is an entirely new approach to accessibility guidelines.


Brent: will have a short survey about the HPWD use the web survey and Daniel another survey coming?

Daniel: Yes this will be the second curricula, addressing needs for developers, six modules coming in the next week or two. It is a long resource, you can start with 4,5,6 at this point and come back when the others have been finalized

Brent: We can give you a heads up on that since it is a longer survey, will update the W4TW and get the survey out today. No meeting next friday, it is W3C GeekWeek and staff is given time for geeky projects.
... thanks everyone, be watching for emails, see you in a couple of weeks.

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: Sharron, brentb, kevin, krisannekinney, Vicki, Crystal, Shawn, Hidde, Kenzo, Mark, Daniel, JasonMcKee, shadi
Present: Sharron brentb kevin krisannekinney Vicki Crystal Shawn Hidde Kenzo Mark Daniel JasonMcKee shadi
Regrets: Laura Andrew Amanda Greta Estella
Found Scribe: Sharron
Inferring ScribeNick: Sharron
Found Date: 11 Sep 2020
People with action items: 

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