Meeting minutes
Changes in introductory paragraph https://deploy-preview-248--wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/developing-accessible-content/custom-widgets/#introduction
<shadi> [[demonstrate examples of accessible custom widgets, including buttons, carousels, sliders, tabs, treeviews, and others defined in the WAI-ARIA authoring practices, section Design patterns and widgets.]]
<shadi> [[demonstrate use of appropriate code for accessibility properties, states, keyboard and focus interactions, and live regions]]
DS: two suggestions
… use the verb "explain" for the second bullet instead of "demonstrate"
… and switch the order of the two bullet points
DM: ok, I agree with that
DF: like the re-ordering and wording suggestion
… aligns it with other modules
GN: I agree too
Shadi: Like the suggestions, we wanted to disambiguate the term "custom widgets" as soon as possible
… First bullet disambiguates it, if you don't understand, you can see what they are
DS: can go either way
… like the definition of custom widgets
SAZ: can also go either way, just raising
<eoncins_> scribe/eoncins
Learning Outcomes for Module https://deploy-preview-248--wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/developing-accessible-content/custom-widgets/#learning-outcomes-for-module
Daniel: We have put the idea of coding up-front
we put keyboard and focus together, they are interlinked
… is it clear that we are teaching custom widgets?
GN: For me is clear.
Donald: Is clear but a strong focus is on coding. If we go back to the reflection on understanding the concepts should we stress this understanding?
Daniel: I could add this in the Learning Outcomes. Probably is not that clear now.
+1 to Donald
David: I agree with what Donald says. We should differentiate between coding and marking.
… I feel that the learning outcomes should reflect the active principles.
… apply or implement and also identify could reflect this.
Daniel: I see that and the reordering.
David: Understanding what all these things are is important.
Daniel: We need to make efforts so they understand what they are coding.
… any more comments on that?
Donal: At my university I have a page dedicated on how to write learning outcomes. I can share this.
Estella: The guidalines that I shared was the CEDEFOP which are at European level.
Daniel: We need to make more emphasis in trying that developers understand what they are coding.
… any more comments?
<sloandr> CEDEFOP guidelines on learning outcomes—this document? https://www.cedefop.europa.eu/files/4156_en.pdf
Topic Structure https://deploy-preview-248--wai-curricula.netlify.app/curricula/developing-accessible-content/custom-widgets/#topics-to-teach
Daniel: I would like to focus on the topics that we had. Should we concentrate on specific widgets? Which will be the rationale?
… we do have widgets in learning outcomes, showing examples of different widgets and how to code them.
… do you agree with this topic structure?
… standard vs non-standard widgets, we explain HTML elements, we have assigning widgets roles, accessible names and descriptions (when an accessible name should be provided)
… that's something that you would agree with?
David: I really like it. The structure is excellent in terms of covering the key elements.
… I just have one feedback on one of the topics. In conveying widgets it talks very specific about form controls. Could we cover states of other components?
Daniel: We do have something in the menu module but there are other widget states that are not mentioned here. We have focused on problematic widgets.
… I get the point that we should cover more states but we want to avoid expanding to much and being too theoretical.
David: ARIA expanded and ARIA pop-up could be covered in this topic and could express a problematic relationship.
Daniel: I will work on this and add more examples.
Shadi: I have two thoughts. I agree with David and I see the value property that would advocate for expanding the widgets. But I wonder about mixing because it can be confusing and I like the structure now.
… In page regions under structure and semantics, we have listed several things. We could do the same here.
… I think that students should come out of this module with a WAI ARIA spectrum.
… it will be difficult to encapsulate everything in this module.
<sloandr> notes that SC 4.1.2's title is Name, Role, Value, so I agree with Shadi that value is an important property to cover (and explicitly name) in the Topics list
Shadi: Maybe state and properties is a good option.
Gerhard: Maybe include also values.
Daniel: If we separate states and properties why we do not separate also properties and values.
Shadi: We do not need to add more bullets but add more content in the bullets.
… maybe for properties we could combine it to avoid having too much bullets.
Daniel: I will give it a thought. If we have to name all states and properties that will be too long.
Donald: I agree with the proposal and it jump out to me that with ARIA expand and pop-up there is not much.
Daniel: I will have a look at the ARIA spec.
Gerhard: Maybe if we rename the topic we should add to the learning outcomes that students should be able to distinguish between properties, values
Is "Live Regions" a separate module?
Shadi: Should live regions be a separate module?
Donald: Is it a custom widget?
Shadi: Some times. Would you call a chat a widget?
Daniel: Is not one single widget that you can build under live region. Chats, alerts, interactions...
… if people think that this is something that we should work on we can agree on this.
Donal: I don't know the answer is it a single widget or there is an umbrella that we could consider?
Custom Widgets -> Non-standard Widgets
Daniel: We are using custom widgets in several parts. I will try to change custom widgets to non-standard widgets.
… except from the title and the introduction it will be replaced. Is that ok?
Gerhard: For me custom widgets is more understandable.
David: I agree with Gerhard. I understand your point Daniel but there is potential confusion
Donal: Is there a case to put a definition of what custom widget is?
Daniel: We will try to define it in the introduction pointing to different examples.
<shadi> [[distinguish between standard and custom widgets using extended HTML semantics]]
Gerhard: Non-standar widgets in google give you only about 5.000 results (not so frequently used)
Shadi: Distinguishing between standard and custom widgets is the first topic in the module. We could add something to the custom widgets to avoid confusion.
Daniel: I will go back to custom widgets but it should be a qualifying definition to avoid confusion.
Shadi: You could rename that topic because the others start with a verb
Daniel: I will work on this.
Future Plans
Daniel: next plans are to go through another EO survey on the whole curricula.