<ChrisLoiselle__> my irc doesn't seem to be working fully....I'll scribe next time. Sorry!
<jeanne> scribe: sajkaj
<scribe> scribe:sajkaj
js: Asks rm and mc for update
summary to Editor's Draft since Tuesday ...
... there've been quite a few edits
rm: some smaller changes
...
... additional examples; additional ed notes substantially
meeting, scoring, etc
<jeanne> Editor's Draft - Main Branch <- https://w3c.github.io/silver/guidelines/
rm: also some consistency of
phrasing edits
... also model simplified ...
mc: creating templates for the
doc; howtos, techniques/method
... using headings as basis for howto template
... trying for look and feel consistency; but easiest to add
content
... notes the template directory which should be copied; each
tab a separate file
... supply content for each tab using simplest possible
html
... the id's will be important to keep, of course
... would be acceptable to have working examples inside the
howto;
... howto examples are not code; manager level
... believe the template is good and now porting content to
test whether it actually works
... method template will be next; not yet started
js: notes we're not requiring
groups to fill in code
... like the idea of embedding media! xr examples, videos,
etc
mc: every howto is its own folder, so easy to add things
<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say that we aren't expecting the groups to do it. We can copy from Google Docs
js: taking up some substantive
comments from Tuesday deep dive ...
... testing each funct outcome a la Jake's suggestion
... still working on it, the solution we came up with not run
by Jake yet
... Sarah noted lack of consistency
... Sarah has been working toward consistency
<jeanne> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15u5P_VwQUu--1NXSzu2Wwsj-QalDCt_W
rm: working toward tentative
decisio resolution ...
... guidelines top level org struct; what we need to do
... tied to guidelines are howto
sj: Yeah!
rm: funct outcomes now just
outcomes and will have people centered descripts
... below outcomes are techniques; previously called
methods
... keeping the same term as 2.x
... no need to switch term, even though the functionality a bit
different
... techniques used to score functional outcome
js: one to many guidelines and outcomes
pk: asks would be helpful to have
high level goals or purpose statement
... believe high level goal is making the web accessible;
should we articulate that?
<jeanne> https://w3c.github.io/silver/guidelines/#key-requirements
js: believe the intent in the above uri, if insufficient -- please add content suggestion
mc: support more info in
intro
... also expect we may add methodology section
pk: my thought was to put it in intro
ch: we're already changing
meaning of guideline; concerned to change meaning of techniques
only compounds confusion
... would agree with the change if the meaning was the same,
but it isn't
... how we describe outcomes will include "who it benefits"
statement; could be n functional needs
<jeanne> Consistency spreadsheet <- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_Vu0ix-d-Qrv1wDZYQhfUX6jICE_bRalypp1rtcie8w/
rm: looks at the new attempt at
better consistency ...
... proposed struct for how to write a guideline
... outcome name is the starting point there; the results
statement
... ex with techniques: if two ways to solve, becomes two
techniques
... text alternatives will have several depending on object
ch: curious whether exception --
have concern -- tie to who it benefits
... would like to see the linkage between qui bono and
technique
rm: may be reason to split into multiple outcomes
ch: that would still require the many to many relationship
js: outcomes have .and. struct;
one needs x .and. y .and. z ...
... semantic styling that suggests technique is the .or. logic;
this way .or . that
... the .or. list should benefit the same group
ch: so headings is not one
outcome because doesn't map to people who don't see
... so headings would have three outcomes
js: believe that keeps the who it
serves grouping consistent
... we need to do more to be sure
rm: notes may be multiple techniques within a view
mc: not sure how to express that clearly but believe it's correct
<jeanne> Change the name Method to Technique
-1 agree with ch
<CharlesHall> -1
<jeanne> +1
<Jan> +1
<Rachael> +1
<KimD> 0 (not sure)
<AngelaAccessForAll> +1
<Crispy> +1
<Francis_Storr> +1
<jeanne> USe the term "Method"
+1
<jeanne> 0
<PeterKorn> Can I vote "0" for "I don't feel strongly either way"?
<Rachael> 0
<Grady_Thompson> 0
<Jan> 0
<Crispy> 0
<KimD> 0
<Francis_Storr> 0
<CharlesHall> +1
<AngelaAccessForAll> +1
<jeanne> Use the term TEchnique
-1
<Rachael> +1
<CharlesHall> -1
<jeanne> +1
<Jan> +1
<shari> +1
<AngelaAccessForAll> Pardon! +1
<Crispy> +1
<KimD> -.5
<PeterKorn> 0
<CharlesHall> and we are already doing that with the term Guideline
<ChrisLoiselle__> 0, if I'm following we are saying Techniques: instructions on how to follow methods in specific technologies and then we talk to Methods: detailed techniques and tests for rating how well a functional outcome for a technology has been met.
js: proposes we use method for now and ask whether people would prefer technique
RESOLUTION: We will stay with "method" rather than moving to "technique" to avoid confusion with the different meaning from 2.x
<jeanne> To accept the Consistency work from the spreadsheet
<CharlesHall> +1 as described
<Jan> +1
<Rachael> Consistency work includes: And/Or distinction between outcome name and method name and proposed formats for various labels.
<KimD> +1 as described
<Rachael> +1
<jeanne> +1
<shari> +1
+1
<CharlesHall> +1
<Grady_Thompson> +1
<Francis_Storr> +1
<Crispy> +1
<CharlesHall> and the EN 301 549 has “functional performance statements”
RESOLUTION: Adopt the proposed changes for consistency including And/Or distinction between outcome name and method name and proposed formats for various labels.
<jeanne> Changing the term Functional Outcome to Outcome
<CharlesHall> +1
<AngelaAccessForAll> +1
+1000
<Francis_Storr> +1
<Grady_Thompson> +1
<Crispy> +1
<KimD> +1
<jeanne> +1
<mattg> +1
<Jan> +1
<Rachael> +1
<shari> +1
RESOLUTION: Change "Functional Outcome" to "Outcome"
<jeanne> the approach of an exception method to address proprietary, emerging tech, or Methods not yet developed
mc: a bit concerned that it seems like failure method -- would rather handle exceptions differently, not sure how yet
<CharlesHall> not a fan of the word ‘exception’ specifically because i advocate not embracing the exceptions within the SC of 2.x.
mc: in favor of exception somewhere, not sure method is where
rm: like it in method; to avoid repeating fields in method
<CharlesHall> +1 to at method level, but hopefully a different word
rm: think exception is wrong
word, though
... but agree "generic" is a problem, too
<KimD> I also don't like the word "exception"
rm: recalls one way to show is provide results of testing with pwds
mc: support that as an option; but shouldn't be the only way
<Rachael> It's long but maybe "Emerging/Proprietary/Other"
mc: recalls we intended to stay
on top of emerging tech in 2.x; not sure we'll do better
... need to leave room for techniques we haven't documented
<PeterKorn> Are you saying people are taking exception to that word?
mc: exceptions not to the
technique; but to the outcome
... if your lang doesn't support this feature, you don't have
to do it
rm: yes, that is not the intent here.
<Jan> I have to drop for another call. Have a great weekend everyone! :-)
[discussion of terminology options]
<CharlesHall> i thought the exception was for the outcome based on audience. exception is for the technology? but not if technology agnostic?
mc: we're looking for a word that
says "we didn't document it"
... could live with other
rm: define in glossary!\
<jeanne> +1 to Fallback
<KimD> Works for me
<CharlesHall> fallback implies graceful degradation which is the sad opposite of progressive enhancement
<Crispy> +1 to Fallback
<Rachael> +1 to Fallback
+1
<CharlesHall> -1
<KimD> +1 to fallback
<AngelaAccessForAll> 0
<Grady_Thompson> 0
<Francis_Storr> +1
<AngelaAccessForAll> (undecided)
<jeanne> To be continued on Tuesday
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