<Matt_King> Project board for meeting planning https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/projects/3

<scribe> scribe: michael_fairchild

meeting time

Matt_King: we ran a survey. Thank you Mikey for setting that up

Mikey: Thursday 12-1 PM PT had 7 people respond, Tuesday 10-11 AM PT and 6 people respond

Matt_King: it seems to me that Thursday at 12 is the clear winner
... Thursday Sept 10th at 12pm PT will be our next meeting date

meeting tool

Matt_King: It seems that there is a strong preference for zoom

<Jemma> would it be still biweekly?

Yes

Matt_King: Michael said he can use his account from Deque
... we just need to make sure that we have a moderator set up

michael_fairchild: we can set that up

Matt_King: I'll work out the details with Michael. We will use zoom for the Sept 10th meeting.

update on contracts

Matt_King: we will be working with two companies, Prime Access Consulting and Bocoup
... Michael Fairchild will be the product owner for automation prototype workstream
... Sina and Prime Access Consulting will work on the test writing workstream
... Software workstream for our two repos will be done by Bocoup
... we will have backlog built out for v2 ready for the Step 10th meeting.
... The community group can give input on changes
... does anyone else have suggestions from the first half of the year? Also feel free to send me an email about this.

(no questions/comments/feedback)

unable to save test results (#290)

Matt_King: Hadi, we did not have enough clarity on how to reproduce this bug based on what you wrote.

Hadi: we did this twice in two browsers and got the same result. No feedback after saving, and when we went back nothing was saved.

Mikey: When you click 'save results' at the bottom, nothing happens. When you click the 'view results' it will save the results.

Matt_King: I'll update the issue and say that it was verified.
... I'll assign to Val

Create documentation for how test cases will be authored (#18)

Matt_King: we do have a wiki page but there is some basic stuff missing

<Matt_King> wiki page for test authoring: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/How-to-contribute-tests

Matt_King: is anyone willing to edit this wiki page?

jongund: I can

Matt_King: The goal is for Sina to be able to read this page and jump right in

jongund: by next meeting?

Matt_King: it would be good to at least have some draft content by next meeting so that we can review.

Reusing Assertions

<jongund> MF: I have everything written down in the issue

<jongund> MF: Looking to abstract assertions away from test could make assestions across tests

<jongund> MF: Test updates could be more efficient

<jongund> MF: Write assertions for each role and attribute and then reference the tests

<jongund> MF: Write assertions for a dialog role and then use them in the dialog examples

<jongund> MF: Greater division of development, some people work on assertions and others on tests

<jongund> MF: I have wrote up my thoughts in the issue 295

<jongund> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/295

<jongund> MK: This is really valuable, discussion of the assertions with AT vendors

<jongund> MK: There will be something like 5,000 some tests

<jongund> MK: We need a way to manage the number of assertions

<jongund> MK: Everytime we add a layer of abstraction, it makes it more complex to create a test

<jongund> MK: Abstraction can make somethings simpler, but other things seem more complicated

<jongund> MK: The pros out weigh the cons

<jongund> MK: I think we need to try it

<jongund> MF: I have been doing this in my other project in a11y IO, it really helps with keep things consistent, I think I have proven this is worth while

<jongund> MK: If some of the abstractions need names or variables, that is OK, but it makes it hard to change everything at one time, unless the tokens are somewhere else

<jongund> MK: Maybe token changing is in the JS

<jongund> MK: Maybe done in the harness itself, these are little details

<jongund> MK: It can be by attribute, but there can be quite of bit of assertions related to aria-selected, but they are dependent on context

<jongund> MF: Is this something we need to work with Bokuo?

<jongund> MF: If it changes what we send them yes, but if we can do it, they don't need too

<jongund> MK: what are we going to do with generated files in the repo

<jongund> MK: What ever we want to work on, Bocoup does the rest

<jongund> HR: Clarification question

<jongund> HR: You want to centralize the assertions,..

<jongund> HR: Sounds like a great idea

<jongund> HR: Testers need access to the guidance, to allow testers to follow the protocol

<jongund> MF: As we are authoring tests we would reference the assertions, and the JS would put everything togetther

<jongund> MK: Do assertions need to be categorized, the mode of NVDA and JAWS switches, would that be one of the .... list of roles, maybe assertions need to categorized into reading mode or interaction mode

<jongund> MK: We need to think about the ones where we write it .. there are some complications with mode, like Apple we don't have reading and interactive mode

<jongund> MK: If the assertion is the same, except for reading or interaction mode

<jongund> MK: Can we abstract modes?

<jongund> MF: I think that is a good idea

<jongund> MK: I am going to add some of my thoughts to the issue

<jongund> MK: How do we go from concept to reality

<jongund> MF: We would need to discuss that, we have done it differently in my current project

<jongund> MK: We started using google sheets and evolved to Excel, navigation in excel is easier

<jongund> MK: We may want to revisit the decisions

<jongund> MK: We wanted to CSV for everything, as the plan of record

<jongund> MK: The right time to revisit this at the end of the year, by making Bocoup and Prime Access working together

<jongund> MK: Abstraction may make using CSV more probelmatic

<Matt_King> who was on the call

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