<BetsyFurler> I’ll be joining the call late and need to also leave early. I’m still working on rescheduling my other set appointments to get this one in!

<Rachael> scribe: Rachael

Glossary

<Jennie> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AuM-06Alk5VgVgFPTsJD2DcadIrcGIRVDcNgFwPiQRc/edit#

Jennie: Abi cleaned up the document so that heading level 2 is used to indicate the term that will be used. We have completed age appropriate forgetfulness.

Today we will start with Autism Spectrum Disorder. I do want to address the questions that came up on the email list. One was from John R. who asked whether WAI documented the approach they adopted.

scribe: Abi's last statement was if we are able to support an identity centered approach and whether that was standard.

<Fazio> like person first language?

Michael: We have some principles we are taught but we don't have it documented. I think it would be a good idea to write that down somewhere. I don't feel qualified to make the recommendation.

<Fazio> Oh yeah like Indis widely uses differently abled

<Fazio> even though we find that offensive in US

Jennie: Yes to David's question. Different countries take different approaches. The us takes a person first approach vs the EU which taked an disability first.
... identify first.

John K: It changes and is evolving. Person first in US has generally been accepted. There has been pushback in various disability communities. We should note that it is something that evolves. We could argue about it for a long time.

<Jennie> * I got booted from the meeting - reconnectig

Rachael: I think the W3 would look to our language choices for some guidance. They asked to see our language guide for content usable.

MichaelC: First, for spelling and grammar we use American so that may make sense to use American terms. I woudl be inclined to put language at the top of the glossary. We know there are other terms but have chosen to use the american terms to remain consisitent with W3 policy. Then include alternate terms in () to be inclusive. I am favorable to creating a WAI style guide. If a suggestion starts from this group it is more likely to happen. I

don't know if it will happen with this document but we should consider translatability. When translated, the term from that language will be used. So we should recognize that and not get too worried. Lets be consistent instead of spending a lot of time getting it right for all audiences.

<Fazio> +1

Jennie: In Minnesota, we recognize the group's preference over consistency between groups. Without a style guide, I agree with Michael but we should note that we will adopt a style guide if it comes into being.
... any other comments about identity first/person first?

<Fazio> Theres also something called the euphemism treadmill where descriptions become negative over time for the disability community

MichaelC: Even in US usage there is inconsistency due to cultural history. Lets circle back to consistency and content that acknowledges it isn't perfect.

<kirkwood> +1

<MichaelC> +1

Jennie: I would like to break this voting into pieces. Starting with a disclaimer at the beginning of the glossary that explains how we create the policy? +1 if you would like this included

+1

<Jennie> +1

<BetsyFurler> +1

Jennie: I see no negative responses.

RESOLUTION: ADD disclaimer language to beginning of glossary.

<Fazio> I like Michael's disclaimer idea

<kirkwood> +1

<Fazio> +1

<BetsyFurler> +1

Jennie: If it sounds like the group is talking about consistency vs addressing each individual's preference. +1 if you prefer consistency -1 if you prefer we address language by group

+1

<Fazio> other way would get confusing I think

<MichaelC> +1 to consistency but with recognition of other variants in the definition

<Fazio> throw off the readability

<Jennie> +1

Jennie: We have the () terms in the document already but we should then validate that those are included.

RESOLUTION: Consistent approach to language with alternatives in () beside term in definition.

<Fazio> +1

<BetsyFurler> +1

<Jennie> +1

Jennie: Next decision is person first (person who is blind) or identity first (blind person). +1 for person first, -1 for indentity first

<kirkwood> +1

<MichaelC> +0

<kirkwood> good point

RESOLUTION: Use person first pending confirmation by wider group by email list

<kirkwood> agreed!

Jennie: We need to add the disclaimer and alternative terms as part of the email. I think we still do have to have a style guide around this.

Rachael: I think we should document our final decision along with reasons and push it up.

Jennie: We are going to talk about hte definition of Autism Spectrum Disorder. I will paste the original defintion posted to the list:

<Jennie> Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is characterized by some degree of impaired social behavior, communication and language abilities. This may also impact the person’s ability to regulate behavior and attention. Individuals can have a narrow range of interests and activities and they may rely on alternative communication methods. Some individuals may also experience episodes of sensory overload.

<Jennie> Note: See neurodiversity for an alternative approach to ASD, Dyslexia, and other cognitive disabilities.

Jennie: We also discussed adding a note to the top of the glossary though it might go on the glossary item (see above).
... Likely include in our disclaimer. We would then add an * with assoicated aria-label that woudl reference this note.

<Fazio> I hate that term neurodiversity but unfortunately its widely used

Jennie: there was conversation between John R and Abi about an alternative approach. Abi provided alternative information. I think that addressed most of his concerns. Do others have comments about this definition?
... Reads Fazio comment. I hear your concern. Others hate the alternative terms. We need to balance perspectives. Is there a way to address your concern?

Fazio: I am concerned that neurodiverse isn't just autism. The tech community has pigeonholed autism as being the same as neurodiverse.

Jennie: The note includes terms that are included in neurodiverse.

<Fazio> +1

BetsyFurler: With the neurodiversity discussion. I say Autism, ADHD, learning differences and dyslexia. I do add those 4 things to make it a more complete picture of neurodiversity. I agree we are all neurodiverse

<Fazio> Aspergers?

Jennie: Besty is proposing Autism, ADHD, learning differences and dyslexia. I'd like to add (ASD) after autism. The difference is other cognitive disabilities.

<kirkwood> +1 to cognitive disabilities as well

Proposal: Note: See neurodiversity for an alternative approach to Autism (ASD), ADHD, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities.

Jennie: Do you feel strongly that you want Aspergers included in the Autism or in this note?

Fazio: In the ASD

Note: See neurodiversity for an alternative approach to Autism (ASD), AD[H]D, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities.

<kirkwood> I question the owrd “approach”

Any other discussion?

<Fazio> context?

<Fazio> context?

kirkwood: thinking about it.

Jennie: People were concerned that neurodiversity should be added to ASD but as we discussed it needed to be added to a number of terms.

Note: See neurodiversity for alternative context to Autism (ASD), AD[H]D, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities.
... Neurodiversity can also be used to describe Autism (ASD), AD[H]D, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities.

Rachael: proposed language above.

Jennie: I wonder if we need to flip it.

<Fazio> I+1

<Fazio> +1

Note: Autism (ASD), AD[H]D, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities may also be described as neurodiversity.

Jennie: Consider flipping it (See above)

Note: Autism (ASD), A(H)D, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities may also be described as neurodiversity.
... Autism (ASD), AD(H)D, dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities may also be described as neurodiversity.

<scribe> ACTION: Check to see if dyslexia is uppercase or lowercase

<trackbot> Error finding 'Check'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/track/users>.

Proposal 1: Note: Neurodiversity can also be used to describe Autism (ASD), AD[H]D, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities.

<kirkwood> Autism (ASD), A(H)D, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities may also be included in the sprectrum of neurodiversity.

Proposal 2: Note: Autism (ASD), AD(H)D, dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities may also be described as neurodiversity.

Proposal 3: Note: Autism (ASD), AD(H)D, Dyslexia, and other cognitive and learning disabilities may also be included in the sprectrum of neurodiversity.

<Fazio> 3

<kirkwood> 3

<Jennie> 3

<BetsyFurler> 3

3 but I think it needs a bit more wordsmithing

Jennie: Rachael is requesting wordsmithing.

<BetsyFurler> I have left the meeting.

<kirkwood> +1 to are

<kirkwood> may/are

Rachael: My concerns are "may". I think they "are"

Fazio: I think neurodiversity is used in the corporate area. I'm not sure its used in the medical terminology. Is that dangerous to what we're trying to do here?

Jennie: I hear what you are saying. Question - Are you hearing it the way some use ASP to reference individuals with aspergers?

Fazio: I've never heard neurodiverse used in medical context.
... has someone seen a medical reference to neurodiversity.

kirkwood: I agree with David but I think that is one of the issues. Our target audience is the business community. I think it will land better with people we want ot adopt these. I would lean towards the business language.

Fazio: I agree but also think it detracts from the style and and format for the rest of the document. Business

<Fazio> +1 to Rachael

<Fazio> +1 to Rachael

<kirkwood> +1

Rachael: Change this back to a definition. Consider adding it back as a defintion. Cross reference the other items to the definition.

<Fazio> +1

Jennie: The conversation that prompted this discussion was to try to keep it concise. Would it suffice to use the * approach?

<Fazio> +1

<kirkwood> +1

Proposal: Move this conversation into the neurodiversity glossary term. Add a * to the terms with a reference to cross reference neurodiversity.

+1

<kirkwood> +1

<Jennie> 0 I would need to see it in action

<Fazio> I'm having a lot of lag so I may be posting duplicates fyi

Jennie: We can make move forward with this and bring it back.

<Jennie> Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is characterized by some degree of impaired social behavior, communication and language abilities. This may also impact the person’s ability to regulate behavior and attention. Individuals can have a narrow range of interests and activities and they may rely on alternative communication methods. Some individuals may also experience episodes of sensory overload.

Jennie: any further conversation?

kirkwood: What is the source of the defintion?

Jennie: I think this is 4-5 different sources compiled together to address all the different parts the group felt was important. John, you had brought up that groups associated with terms to get a chance to address these.
... I think the group agreed to that.

kirkwood: Do we have a standard practice of attributing and linking to sources of definitions?

Rachael: I don't think we reference various sources as inspiration.

<Fazio> Bibliography?

Michael: I don't think we are required to. I do think its a good idea to document our sources somewhere but likely keep it for future reference.
... risk of bibliograpy would be possibly taking us off core work.

Jennie: Is there a specific portion of the definition that concerns you?

kirkwood: Not really but if the source was an advocacy organization it would be written differently than a clinical document. Its more of a tone thing. I don't have a particular concern. Just wanted to know.

Fazio:

whenever I create a document, I always keep a rough draft of where I keep it.

scribe: at least at the end of the document to have a list of references that we used to give people a list of resources to learn more. Important and impactful.

Jennie: I can gather together the pieces we've taken from different sources nad have it prepared.
... I can pull together the sources.

<Jennie> Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is characterized by some degree of impaired social behavior, communication and language abilities. This may also impact the person’s ability to regulate behavior and attention. Individuals can have a narrow range of interests and activities and they may rely on alternative communication methods. Some individuals may also experience episodes of sensory overload.

<kirkwood> 0

+1 to the definition, -1 if you object.

+1 with caveat that it is reviewed by group impacted

<kirkwood> +1 if reviewed

Jennie: Also on the fence.
... I too feel it is problematic. I am totally fine if that is what the group decides.

<Jennie> Scribe: Jennie

John K: I have done work like this in the past, and the thing that moves quickly and is on point is Wikipedia - are we missing out by not referencing Wikipedia?

<Fazio> wikipedia isn't really vetted though right?

<Fazio> Wikipedia isn't really vetted though right?

<Rachael> Jennie: I'm on the IAP curriculum committee. The work I did on behalf of the state on that group. We had to pushed back hard to not use Wikipedia as a way to study for certification exam. For us in a government standpoint, it was difficult to have wikipedia as a reference.

<Rachael> ..following group's defintions would have been more accepted. I think that approach is better. Not vetted by group.

Content Usable Update

<Rachael> Rachael: Content usable gets published for wide review next week. We want a dissemination list so please think about who should be reviewing this document. Advocacy groups, tech companies etc. We want to build a list next week and then start sending this out for as wide a review as possible.

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Present: Jennie Fazio Rachael MichaelC kirkwood Roy BetsyFurler
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