Accessibility of the Web of Things.

<janina> scribe: janina

jgw: Opens conversation on his summary WoT draft

js: Nicolo has joined, and we're introducing ourselves ...

<Joshue108> NC: gives intros

<Joshue108> JW: Some of our work on XR will be of interest

<Joshue108> JS: Gives intro

<Joshue108> JW: Gives intro

<Joshue108> scribe: Joshue 108

<Joshue108> JW: Josh, was providing a link on WoT

<Joshue108> JW gives recap of mail and comments on WoT use cases

<Joshue108> The role of individual needs and preferences is v important

<Joshue108> We noted the role of UI a11y as well as using multiple devices

<Joshue108> There are commercial considerations and we are more interested in general overlapping themes

<Joshue108> rather than individual application scenarios

<Joshue108> JS: I think you missed a key point..

<Joshue108> JS: A PwD using AT, or A11y support may fill any of the roles they are naming in their use cases

<Joshue108> Not just a silo with no overlap.

<Joshue108> Any job, the AFB will point you to many areas with peer support, supported employment.

<Joshue108> The WoT group needs to get that.

<Joshue108> +1 to Janina

<Joshue108> JW: I will add and repost.

<Joshue108> JW: They have a wider responsibility to meet the job and be inclusive.

<Joshue108> There are also racial and social implications that we don't know how to address.

<Joshue108> JS: Mentions Angela Hookers presentation/YT vid

<Joshue108> JOC: Which thing are we adding it to?

<Joshue108> JOC: Please put into IRC

<Joshue108> Jason to update this mail with Janina's input etc

<Joshue108> JW: I missed the idea that the WoT and others may be conceiving the role here too narrowly.

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rqtf/2020Jul/0004.html

<Joshue108> JOC: It is important to identity the locus of responsibility here.

<Joshue108> JS: Also do be plain spoken.

<Joshue108> We want to change minds - and they need to be told what is important.

<Joshue108> PwDs do work.

<Joshue108> and we can help build this into your use cases.

<Joshue108> JOC: Nice to see this coming together,

<Joshue108> JW: If there are other comments can we take it up on list?

<Joshue108> JS: Yup

<Joshue108> JW: APA can take it up and then forward it.

<Joshue108> JOC: It can go to the WoT IG chairs - the two Michaels

<Joshue108> JW: Sounds like an interesting group there.

<Joshue108> JW: Anything else?

RTC Accessibility User Requirements - open issues.

<Joshue108> JW: This is associated open issues for RTC etc.

<Joshue108> JS: Can we take up the other one first?

<Joshue108> JOC: Am happy to push RTC stuff to next week

Upcoming workshops.

<Joshue108> JS: Discusses where we are at with ML.

<Joshue108> Don't think this is as low level as some.

<Joshue108> When ML kicks in, it may not be obvious.

<Joshue108> Its the inbetween ground that is important.

<Joshue108> Devs will not always write the apps/agents/whatever_thing_is that will empower knowledge domain experts to build the tools that support a11y

<Joshue108> That is the part where we come in.

<Joshue108> We don't want it to be let down by simple a11y rookie errors.

<Joshue108> These agents can be powerful and deterministic.

<Joshue108> JW: Currently Python is the env to do this.

<Joshue108> Programming => Script Linear Learning, Algos => Implementation

<Joshue108> JS: So that is the question.

<Joshue108> We may talk about bias etc and Jutta will talk about that.

<Joshue108> If knowing Python is the requirement, you'd better know it.

<Joshue108> It won't stay that way - hence interest in WIRED article.

<Joshue108> JS: Do we know what the range of learning tools output is?

<Joshue108> A journal article with prose?

<Joshue108> JW: You mean what they produce?

<Joshue108> <gives overview>

<Joshue108> JS: I mean responsive personal assistance - Siri, Alexa etc they are outputs of ML.

<Joshue108> <discusses if they could get names right>

<Joshue108> JS: So there are serious bias issues etc

<Joshue108> JS: Jutta will cover that.

<Joshue108> JOC: Ok, all sounds great - but what do we do?

<Joshue108> JS: Ok, I'll ping Dom and cc the round robin

<Joshue108> JW: I'm writing a book chapter on AI and PwDs.

<Joshue108> Doing literature review.

<Joshue108> JS: I want to avoid the WoT loop that took 7 years to ferment

<Joshue108> JOC: SO what will Janina say to Dom?

<Joshue108> JS: I'm going to tease these questions out.

<Joshue108> <gives examples of meta code tooling>

<Joshue108> JS: They don't think of a11y requirements, as they are not main stream,

<Joshue108> how can we support knowledge domain workers with a11y requirements

<Joshue108> If the toolkits make it easier to build models that do useful stuff that should be accessible to PwDs

<Joshue108> Steven Hawking for example

<Joshue108> THen there is the feednback loop that Josh raised - unintended consequences

<Joshue108> We have examples that will get covered by Jutta I think.

<Joshue108> I'm just want us to be focussed

<Joshue108> JOC: Gets philosophical

<Joshue108> JW: Further comments?

<Joshue108> SN: makes sense

<Joshue108> JW: The other issue is a Maps workshop?

<Joshue108> JS: In Sept

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2020/maps/

<Joshue108> <Janina talks about contacts>

<Joshue108> Linked Data for Accessibility Community Group https://www.w3.org/community/lda/

<Joshue108> Linked Building Data CG https://www.w3.org/community/lbd/

<Joshue108> JOC: Gives overview of Maps for the Web Workshop

<Joshue108> NC: I have already developed something related to geolocation data in the environment.

<Joshue108> JS: Are you interested in presenting?

<Joshue108> NC: Sounds good

<nicolocarp_> nicolo.carpignoli@chialab.it

<Joshue108> JW: I'll put these on the agenda for next week

<Joshue108> JW: Same agenda for next week

<Joshue108> JS: Also we have TPAC news

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