<michaelcrabb> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_silver-xr
we are joining now.
<scribe> scribe: Joshue108
MC: We have some new people
Chris Perera introduction
<discussion about the weather>
MC: I'd like to close off the first part of the new guideline creation process
defining user needs
Are there easier ways of looking at this?
A challenge is that we have been thinking about consumption in XR and not just captioning
Suggest we narrow this down
Start with definitions, Jeanne?
JS: +1
Trying to define this in immersive should also include audio description
It is artistic.
JOC: +1
<CharlesHall> +1
MC: I tried to come up with a definiton of captioning
<michaelcrabb> Method of translating non-visual content into a visual stimulai
JOC: Are we sure its a good idea to come up with our own definition?
MC: Is there one in 2.1?
<michaelcrabb> https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av/captions/
JOC: It needs to be agreed on by the wider community
<reads definition of captions>
MC: This does not consider noises.
<jeanne> From MAUR: Described video contains descriptive narration of key visual elements designed to make visual media accessible to people who are blind or visually impaired.
<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/
JS: WCAG seperates audio desc and captioning
Most WAI docs will do that.
CH: It also suggests that the text lives within the media itself
MC: Should it be, or seperate or attached?
+1 to that
<Zakim> bruce_bailey_, you wanted to ask how we can narrow impact of AD
BB: It is awk as an a11y person to hear about captions for blind, or audio desc for the deaf as verticals
Captioning can reflect noise that it makes etc - but someone who is deaf may not want what is obvious
BB: Same engine
MC: Closely related - should we make a distinction?
JS: I think its time to break with W3C definitions and explain why.
MC: That makes sense
JS: This is about translation.
MC: I can come up with a paragraph - that shows here are the definitions and we wish to take a diff approach.
We are looking at these for everyone.
JOC: Strong plus one to reviewing the definitons and bringing this back to the main AGWG group for review
JS: This is also good for deaf blind
MC: So if we take the approach that it is about shifting content in alternative domains.
Also +1 to Charles and changing the idea of text needing to be embedded in the media itself
MC: Sound good?
<michaelcrabb> If we move to embrace Permanent, Temporary, and Situational impairments as methods that should be considered when developing content for XR
SO we are looking at these being horizontals and not verticals related only to specific groups
MC: So with this in mind - what is being said, or the sound being made, or the direction.
<gives details of these use cases>
The direction aspect is germane to Immersive
+1
<jeanne> +1
<CharlesHall> and who the speaker is
<bruce_bailey_> +1
MC: So it looks like these are the main things.
For tomorrow, I will write up a short description of our definitions for captioning and audio desc
<jeanne> That leaves out the description of what is visually happening and the direction
And the case for muxing them
MC: Good direction?
JS: Yes, we may find that we need to separate. Bruce?
BB: Sounds good
MC: Great - this needs to be more open.
<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#auditory-visual-deaf-blind
MC: <Discusses user needs section>
We had looked at EN 301549
<jeanne> Individuals who are deaf-blind have a combination of conditions that may result in one of the following: blindness and deafness; blindness and difficulty in hearing; low vision and deafness; or low vision and difficulty in hearing. Depending on their combination of conditions, individuals who are deaf-blind may need captions that can be enlarged, changed to high-contrast colors, or otherwise
<jeanne> styled; or they may need captions and/or described video that can be presented with AT (e.g., a refreshable Braille display). They may need synchronized captions and/or described video, or they may need a non-time-based transcript which they can read at their own pace.
Charles, anything else from our own list we need to incluide.
<CharlesHall> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/edit?usp=sharing
CH: We need to review this as a sub group WIP
I've tagged things I know to be an issue in XR or specific there
Should we take these user needs and match them up.
CH: This is WIP
MC: We can move our stuff
along
... I'll bring this to the main Silver meeting
Will write it up and send it out to our group first
<jeanne> +1 Charles. This is impressive. I'm excited about it.
Then we can ask for group feedback
Would like to present finished list of User Needs
<michaelcrabb> https://w3c.github.io/silver/subgroups/xr/captioning/user-requirements.html
JS: Working?
MC: Yes!
... Will pull these things together to show a full
picture
... Hows that?
<bruce_bailey_> +1
<CharlesHall> +1
MC: Next step is writing the functional outcomes.
We can do that next week after feedback on user needs etc
MC: Have other groups done this? Advice?
<CharlesHall> functional needs subgroup is working on a functional outcomes definition
<CharlesHall> draft: A statement that describes a singular objective of a user has been met – usually in the context of a task or overall goal – that may need to name or cite a functional need.
JS: We've not done a lot yet.
<CharlesHall> Examples: The headings were perceived. The headings were understood.
<CharlesHall> Note: this is similar in concept to acceptance criteria, but from the perspective of the user.
JS: Yes
MC: We need feedback from the wider community.
JS: Charles has examples in IRC - we moved from that format. We don't want passive voice.
Harder to use active voice but needed.
We can get ideas first - then work it out.
MC: Will give it a go.
JS: We have plain lang experts.
We have requests from others who want to get involved.
MC: Bill Curtis was mentioned, ex Magic Leap
We are meeting next week hopefully
<michaelcrabb> http://www.xraccess.org/symposium/
<CharlesHall> he is also presenting at that symposium
He has asked us to pass on info on the XR Access Symposium
<CharlesHall> nice
MC: It would be good to have something at that as well
We can get more info from Bill
He will be very helpful
MC: We've also got a contact in Immersive Captioning CG
Chris W made a link for us
We may get more from that group coming here, which is great.
<bruce_bailey_> This is probably url for Magic Leap:
<bruce_bailey_> https://www.magicleap.com/en-us
MC: I've also contact with Chris
Hughes Uni of Salford
... What else? Recaps
<bruce_bailey_> Can't find bio at that sight, but here is one with the right photo:
<bruce_bailey_> https://www.coursera.org/instructor/bcurtisdavidson
Anything else?
<michaelcrabb> https://www.linkedin.com/in/billcurtisdavidson/
Ok, thats it
See you next week
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