Silver XR Subgroup

29 Jun 2020


jeanne, bruce_bailey, _, Joshue108, CharlesHall, ChrisP, Crispy


<michaelcrabb> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_silver-xr

we are joining now.

<scribe> scribe: Joshue108

MC: We have some new people

Chris Perera introduction

<discussion about the weather>

MC: I'd like to close off the first part of the new guideline creation process

defining user needs

Are there easier ways of looking at this?

A challenge is that we have been thinking about consumption in XR and not just captioning

Suggest we narrow this down

Start with definitions, Jeanne?

JS: +1

Trying to define this in immersive should also include audio description

It is artistic.

JOC: +1

<CharlesHall> +1

MC: I tried to come up with a definiton of captioning

<michaelcrabb> Method of translating non-visual content into a visual stimulai

JOC: Are we sure its a good idea to come up with our own definition?

MC: Is there one in 2.1?

<michaelcrabb> https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av/captions/

JOC: It needs to be agreed on by the wider community

<reads definition of captions>

MC: This does not consider noises.

<jeanne> From MAUR: Described video contains descriptive narration of key visual elements designed to make visual media accessible to people who are blind or visually impaired.

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/

JS: WCAG seperates audio desc and captioning

Most WAI docs will do that.

CH: It also suggests that the text lives within the media itself

MC: Should it be, or seperate or attached?

+1 to that

<Zakim> bruce_bailey_, you wanted to ask how we can narrow impact of AD

BB: It is awk as an a11y person to hear about captions for blind, or audio desc for the deaf as verticals

Captioning can reflect noise that it makes etc - but someone who is deaf may not want what is obvious

BB: Same engine

MC: Closely related - should we make a distinction?

JS: I think its time to break with W3C definitions and explain why.

MC: That makes sense

JS: This is about translation.

MC: I can come up with a paragraph - that shows here are the definitions and we wish to take a diff approach.

We are looking at these for everyone.

JOC: Strong plus one to reviewing the definitons and bringing this back to the main AGWG group for review

JS: This is also good for deaf blind

MC: So if we take the approach that it is about shifting content in alternative domains.

Also +1 to Charles and changing the idea of text needing to be embedded in the media itself

MC: Sound good?

<michaelcrabb> If we move to embrace Permanent, Temporary, and Situational impairments as methods that should be considered when developing content for XR

SO we are looking at these being horizontals and not verticals related only to specific groups

MC: So with this in mind - what is being said, or the sound being made, or the direction.

<gives details of these use cases>

The direction aspect is germane to Immersive


<jeanne> +1

<CharlesHall> and who the speaker is

<bruce_bailey_> +1

MC: So it looks like these are the main things.

For tomorrow, I will write up a short description of our definitions for captioning and audio desc

<jeanne> That leaves out the description of what is visually happening and the direction

And the case for muxing them

MC: Good direction?

JS: Yes, we may find that we need to separate. Bruce?

BB: Sounds good

MC: Great - this needs to be more open.

<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#auditory-visual-deaf-blind

MC: <Discusses user needs section>

We had looked at EN 301549

<jeanne> Individuals who are deaf-blind have a combination of conditions that may result in one of the following: blindness and deafness; blindness and difficulty in hearing; low vision and deafness; or low vision and difficulty in hearing. Depending on their combination of conditions, individuals who are deaf-blind may need captions that can be enlarged, changed to high-contrast colors, or otherwise

<jeanne> styled; or they may need captions and/or described video that can be presented with AT (e.g., a refreshable Braille display). They may need synchronized captions and/or described video, or they may need a non-time-based transcript which they can read at their own pace.

Charles, anything else from our own list we need to incluide.

<CharlesHall> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eJkgXqbh7dx3uD6XAy8XAANmwfbbVZ5GKb_gbsUdkVs/edit?usp=sharing

CH: We need to review this as a sub group WIP

I've tagged things I know to be an issue in XR or specific there

Should we take these user needs and match them up.

CH: This is WIP

MC: We can move our stuff along
... I'll bring this to the main Silver meeting

Will write it up and send it out to our group first

<jeanne> +1 Charles. This is impressive. I'm excited about it.

Then we can ask for group feedback

Would like to present finished list of User Needs

<michaelcrabb> https://w3c.github.io/silver/subgroups/xr/captioning/user-requirements.html

JS: Working?

MC: Yes!
... Will pull these things together to show a full picture
... Hows that?

<bruce_bailey_> +1

<CharlesHall> +1

MC: Next step is writing the functional outcomes.

We can do that next week after feedback on user needs etc

MC: Have other groups done this? Advice?

<CharlesHall> functional needs subgroup is working on a functional outcomes definition

<CharlesHall> draft: A statement that describes a singular objective of a user has been met – usually in the context of a task or overall goal – that may need to name or cite a functional need.

JS: We've not done a lot yet.

<CharlesHall> Examples: The headings were perceived. The headings were understood.

<CharlesHall> Note: this is similar in concept to acceptance criteria, but from the perspective of the user.

JS: Yes

MC: We need feedback from the wider community.

JS: Charles has examples in IRC - we moved from that format. We don't want passive voice.

Harder to use active voice but needed.

We can get ideas first - then work it out.

MC: Will give it a go.

JS: We have plain lang experts.

We have requests from others who want to get involved.

MC: Bill Curtis was mentioned, ex Magic Leap

We are meeting next week hopefully

<michaelcrabb> http://www.xraccess.org/symposium/

<CharlesHall> he is also presenting at that symposium

He has asked us to pass on info on the XR Access Symposium

<CharlesHall> nice

MC: It would be good to have something at that as well

We can get more info from Bill

He will be very helpful

MC: We've also got a contact in Immersive Captioning CG

Chris W made a link for us

We may get more from that group coming here, which is great.

<bruce_bailey_> This is probably url for Magic Leap:

<bruce_bailey_> https://www.magicleap.com/en-us

MC: I've also contact with Chris Hughes Uni of Salford
... What else? Recaps

<bruce_bailey_> Can't find bio at that sight, but here is one with the right photo:

<bruce_bailey_> https://www.coursera.org/instructor/bcurtisdavidson

Anything else?

<michaelcrabb> https://www.linkedin.com/in/billcurtisdavidson/

Ok, thats it

See you next week

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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