Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference -- 19 Jun 2020

ART discussion

Hidde: Exciting times for the ATAG report tool. One last look before it goes into final survey. We will look at the various aspects that ahve changes. Link in the agenda to the open and closed GitHub issues.
... will share my screen so we can go through most of the pages to be sure everything has been addressed to the satisfaction of the group. See the screen?

Overview page

Hidde: Have hidden some of the content as requested, most relevant info is at the top, unhidden. Details for new users are hidden and can be expanded as needed.Any comments? All OK?

Report Page

<hdv> github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-atag-report-tool/issues/132

<shawn> Chair: Shawn&Sharron

Hidde: Biggest change is the missing or notchecked category has been removed. We had discussed how to indicate status of each item. Only will count items that are in scipe. If Level A was my choice, even if I choose a few Level AA it does not count in the summary. Seems easiest for the user. So it will show 3 out of 20 etc even if a few from Level AA have been done.

Kevin: This is looking really reallt good.. A question, if something is out of scope but you make an obseration about ti, how will it appear?

Hidde: It will be minimized but can look if you access it.

Kevin: Would it be worth adding the note "not in scope?"

Hidde: Not sure what it would look like, but sounds like it could be useful - just an idea.

Shawn: A good thing to consider, trying to decide if it is worth the effort.

Hidde: It is based on a choice you have made yourself, so adding that could be confusing.

Kevin: It was just a thought, I am not bothered either way.

Hidde: Any discussion about this?

Evaluation Box

<hdv> https://github.com/w3c/wai-atag-report-tool/issues/60

<Helen> github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-atag-report-tool/issues/60

Hidde: A change to the percentage bar, for each Principle. You can now see reporting on 6 of 10 and specify which level is the metric. Can hide the side bar or show it, there can be more room to see your observation.
... We talked about this extensively in the meetings

HTML download

<hdv> github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-atag-report-tool/issues/72

Hidde: We have implemented HTML export, it is a very minimal HTML page, with a title, exec summary, and the status with observation text that you ahve added. If I had put in a name, it will show up in the exported report and any other details that you have put. Can add logos, CSS, scripting etc to the HTML export.

Shawn: Is the tool name included?

Hidde: Yes and it can be something else if we need it to be.

Kevin: I've never liked defintion list, I appreciate having a bit more structure but the user can remove it if needed.
... assuming no CSS?

Hidde: Only to put a box around the table.

Shawn: No summary?

Hidde: OK can add.

<shadi> +1 to list

Shadi: What styling?

Mitchell: In comparison with VPAT, the v2 removed the summary. Maybe becasue inexperinced readers focus too much on numbers and fail to read remarks.
... the difference being that tehhe creator of the report is likely to be more expert than the reader.

Hidde: And we want readers to focus on comments

Laura: As the developer who must fix the issues, I would appreciate knowing how many I have to fix.

Shawn: Defintely have the summary number, with a number of not checked but not a list of it since it is in the table.

Kevin: Another use case for the total number in the summary, it would be useful to have in any comparison.

Howard: Yes, I think you should provide the information. The reader is then allowed an overview and then to dig deeper. And I wonder if putting the not checked in the summary bar as well. The summary box captures your attention and the not checked items may need to be included.

<Laura> +1 to Howard

Kevin: Don't know how useful it is, it is something that you ahve chosen to omit, how is it relevant?

<shawn> shawn is neutral on this point

Hidde: If you are doing the report, you may want to know how many you ahve missed. And since you can edit it out in the experted report, I would +.5

Shadi: So not checked is not the same as out of scope?

Hidde: Correct

Shadi: These five numbers displayed are relevant, I like it the way it is now. In the final exported report, the numbers are relevant, but not the expand function.

Mitchell: Is not checked considered an edge case? Do we expect there to be many where there are none not checked?

<shadi> +1 to that idea

<Laura> ye it's to mitchell's comment

<Laura> yes

<shawn> +1 to not list "Not Checked" if it's 0

Hidde: We could make it so that if none are not checked, we can leave that out. By the time you reach the end, we will expect not checked to often be 0.

<Laura> -1 to not listing it

Laura: I think in an agile process there are times where you may have common occurances where things will not get checked and I would want to know that number.

<Helen> +1 to Laura, to know that they are counted if there

Laura: I would want the verification that 0 have been not checked so that I know the status with confidence. I am not in favor of disappearing numbers.

<shawn> Shawn convinced :-)

<shadi> [can be removed quite easily, so I don't feel strongly]

Howard: I agree with Laura and Helen, good to know it is complete and have left none unchecked.

Shawn: Under the summary, could we include x of y, and level?

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to add Level A, AA here?

Hidde: There are three levels, makes sense to add to the report page and the exported report.

Howard: Curious what is the use case for the downloaded reports? Put on website somewhere or how do we anticipate it being used?
... both the JSON and the HTML

Hidde: Hoping that the HTML report would accompnay accessibility statements. Easy to do since it is already structured.

Shadi: There are also sometimes people evaluating as a purchase requirement. Can do this and give to the sponsor.

Hidde: And evaluators do not like to use PDF since they are so hard to make accessible,so this was a useful alternative we thought.

Helen: Or CSVs!

Hidde: On the wish list

Howard: Wondering how public it will be.

Shawn: it was in response to the goal of making a list of authoring tools.

Hidde: Yes it will facilate making a list of accessibile authoring tools maintained here.
... issues in GitHub have been added from this discussion.

About Page

<hdv> github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-atag-report-tool/issues/134

Hidde: Was "Start" has been changed to About and helps explain what the goals are and what to expect. Any comments, questions?
... if not, then these are all the issues, I have added the comments from today and once I have implemented them, we will have the Butterfly Review.

Shawn: We are hoping the survey will not raise new issues, so please do consdier any changes you would like to see implemented before that.

<Vicki> +1

<Mark> +1

Shawn: want to move on?

<krisannekinney> +1

<Laura> +1

<Howard> +1

<eoncins> +1

<Helen> +1 if the random access issues are all sorted (when it does not load for Chrome!)

Mitchell: What was the decision about the HTML export tralted to row headers for the table?

Hidde: It would be the SC number or what?

Mitchell: Not a deal breaker, but wanted to knwo what the decision was?

<Laura> +1 to Shawn

Helen: If you are going to do it, do it in a way that will not be distracting as you browse through the table.

Mitchell: I can see that as the discussion proceeds, we are likely to end up where we are, which is fine.

Daniel: I am not sure what the autocomplete is on the page, I hear "has popup" and wondering what it is about?

Hidde: Not sure what is triggering that?

Daniel: Can take it off line.
... another point is that in the evaluationbox you ahve a list of subpages and I wonder if it also belongs in the expeorted report with the links to the subpages?

Hidde: Great idea, have made an issue to address.

Shadi: Any thoughts on the table row headers?

Daniel: Some use cases indicate it should be split, others not. It's good as it is now.

Hidde: I have made changes as well to the navigation in response to your raising the NVDA issue.

<Vicki> Impressive, Hidde!

<krisannekinney> really great tool!

Shawn: So the plan is to post the survey today or Monday. The survey will close on Thursday the 25th. Feel free to ask for more time. Hoping we have worked through it enough that there will not be major comments. We will be able to discuss any at the meeting on the 26th and still publish in June.
... thanks Hidde for a great job.

All: Yes, terrific work, great tool.

Work for this week

Shawn: Remnder that there is an open survey on three curriculum modules. Please complete it by Monday and look for the ART survey to close on Thursday.

Style for date format

Shawn: We want to get a consistent way to format dates. For these tools, what do we want the default to be?
... first option is to use local settings
... second is to default to day/month.year
... we have slight preferences among staff and want to get input from EO. What do others think?

Helen: On one level, I like the default to local. However, I have seen the added complexity lead to corruption of how it is displayed.

Shawn: Where it is used now, that does not happen and it is an open form so you can in fact put it in any format.

Helen: I m OK as long as it is not overriding my preference.

Kevin: Respecting user preference when they set it, how is that working? Having a fixed default format is probably better.

Shawn: I have played with it a bit and think the answer is that some computers will have it defaulted differently, few people will cahnge it, some will change it some places, not others.

<Mark> +1 to local setting

Laura: I vote for local settings

<Vicki> +1 to local setting

Kevin: I think local settings are fine but the problem is do most people know how to change it?

Shawn: Since it is an open text field people can change it locally.
... for standard presentation of dates, we will maintain day, month, year.

<hdv> github: https://github.com/w3c/wai-website/issues/212

<Howard> +1 to local

Shawn: Please put local or standard default

<Helen> +1 to local settings in the plain text field example

Shadi: An example is with the generated reports. There is an identifier and the current date is placed by default.

Kevin: It does not seem to matter much, if it is not being parsed.

Sharron: +1 to Kevin

Kevin: It matters if it is going somewhere, but if this is for the user, it makes most sense to be local.

<Daniel> +1 to local

<kevin> +1 to local

<Daniel> s+1 to local/+1 to locale/

<Laura> +1 to local

Shawn: Related to that, look at the WCAG Report Tool there are instructions that say "you can use any date format"

Shadi: Wording for the style guide to insert if there are date input fields.

<Helen> +1 to that proposal

Shawn: Yes any comments on that?

<Helen> With explanantion for the month to be spelled out

<kevin> +1

<Laura> +1

<Vicki> +1

<Howard> +1

<eoncins> +1

Shawn: OK thanks will update the style guide and let editors know. with local and with explanatory text.
... thanks all, wrap up for now. Any open discussion on other topics, announcements, etc?
... thanks for coming, have a good weekend.

trackbot end meeting

- DRAFT -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

19 Jun 2020

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