<inserted> scribenick: dape
Sebastian: Agenda bashing
... minutes
... Monday Wishi meeting
... CoAP in RDF
... Issues
... PlugFest topics
... F2F meeting topics
... Anything more?
<inserted> (none)
Sebastian: BTW, Cristiano has now "invited expert" status
<kaz> May-15
<kaz> typos - eample, licnse, sript
Sebastian: Minutes checking May 15 --> approved
<sebastian> May-29
Sebastian: iotschema.org updates, issue
discussions (bug in JSONLD playground, ...), oneDM, Ege's
static TD approach
... --> minutes May-29 approved
Klaus: no changes to Agenda recently
Sebastian: Unfortunately I am on
vacation next week
... asked M. Koster to present oneDM/TD discussion
<sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/903
Sebastian: Klaus, do you think we can
add issue to agenda item (1400Z)
... one important aspect for us is also the topic about
hypermedia control, 1430Z
Kaz: after hypermedia control discussion, we might want to take a look at RESTful design document
Sebastian: Maybe Klaus can give a quick overview
Klaus: in many meetings we had
questions how to do design decisions
... this document tries to capture the best practices
... not a standard, it is not prescriptive
... e.g., long running actions --> use collection
resource
... or light bulb, do I need history of dimming?
... we hope document is useful for others
... so far not that much feedback
... we appreciate any feedback
Sebastian: Should try to make people aware about this document
Klaus: Shall we add names to agenda points ?
Sebastian: Some people take over whole
discussion block
... should be fine I guess
Kaz: Maybe we also check with M. Koster to make sure
Sebastian: Not sure about topic "Handling URLs"
Klaus: Not sure either
Sebastian: No "real" news from our side I think
Kaz: Related to DID? We should ask McCool
Sebastian: I see.
... Will talk to McCool and Koster
Sebastian: CoAP in RDF
... we provided some basic terms in binding templates document
already
... cov:options, cov:methodName, ...
... not yet in machine readable RDF representation (no ontology
yet)
<kaz> Binding Template draft - 5.3.2 CoAP Vocabulary
Sebastian: We have HTTP ontology
... we need the same for CoAP
... VC started initial document for MQTT and also CoAP
<sebastian> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/tree/master/ontology
Sebastian: we need to work on RDF (ttl files)
Ege: Note: Vocabulary is not the
same
... methodName vs methodCall
Sebastian: I am happy that Klaus is also
interested in the CoAP work
... we have the framework setup. we need to work on content
now
Ege: information how to use render script is in readme of repo
Sebastian: How do we want to organize
the work?
... github discussions, regular meetings, .. ?
Klaus: One initial meeting to kick off would be fine
Sebastian: Makes sense
Kaz: initial meeting: using one TD call or additional call?
Sebastian: Suggest additional call
... mainly Klaus, Ege, Sebastian, Koster, Victor
... Next week im on vacation, the week after is PlugFest
... maybe in PlugFest week?
... will setup Doodle poll
Klaus: Shall we narrow down choice
?
... Monday, Wed, Friday does not work for me
Ege: Thursday works for me
Klaus: Tuesday my preference
... List of Editors: premature putting me on this list
Sebastian: not "final" yet
Kaz: I think Tuesday works better, Thursday are plenty of calls already
Sebastian: OK, will setup Doodle
<inserted> Issue 899
Sebastian: Issue 899, long running
actions
... we have different proposals
... Victor proposes dynamically changing TDs -->
https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/tree/master/proposals/hypermedia-control
... Ege proposes static TDs --> patterns in TD
<Ege> PR 907
Ege: proposal is in PR
... similar to what Victor did... unless TD is static
... e.g., we have fade operation returning with brightness
value as number
... important to note: output refers post response
... want to manage fade operation (query, update, cancel)
... after POST/fade new resources are created (e.g., GET
/fade/1)
... href of new resources can be static
... e.g., GET fade/ongoing
... 1 fade operation at the time vs. multiple operation
... suggest adding additional operation types (queryaction,
updateaction, cancelaction)
... one problem in non-fixed href --> it is not
clear how to get final href
... in case hrefs are dynamic
(e.g., {id}) we need to describe that
... meaning of input/output should not change --> refers to
action request
... added query>input, update>input, update>output,
cancel>input
... implementations may choose the according information (e.g.,
no cancel input needed)
... open issue -> how to integrate dynamic hrefs
... part of header of response
... could also be in payload
... complications: information in header vs. body
... Scripting API concerns -> access to headers?
Daniel: Do we need {id} in header... in body seems better for Scripting and other protocols than HTTP/CoAP
Ege: Issue with existing protocols
Klaus: depending on the case we
might need multiple running actions (e.g., different coffee
orders)
... queeing actions vs one action is possible (depends on use
case)
<inserted> scribenick: kaz
Klaus: going back to the original
question about dynamic TDs
... starting, monitoring, etc.
... pause, resume, etc.
<inserted> scribenick: dape
Klaus: instead of working with ids, plugging in url templates
Ege: Makes sense
Klaus: descriptive vs.
prescriptive
... need to look what products do today
Ege: we should not have to
change... maybe we do not support alle specific solutions
... e.g., with what has been shown we can describe Mozilla
implementations
Kaz: Useful if we could have
concrete use-cases/devices
... should clarify variations
Ege: can look at some examples (Mozilla, coffee machine)
Kaz: Yes, please think about
concrete devices
... and combination of devices so that we could clarify actual
behavior of them and what is required to handle them. that
would be useful for this initial discussion of course, but
would be useful to the future plugfet as well
Ege: should also look into Oracle implementation
<Zakim> dape, you wanted to running actions
Daniel: starting with requirements lists also?
<inserted> kaz: right, and if we could clarify use cases and scenarios with concrete device setting, it would be easier to clarify the requirements as well :)
<inserted> EK: thought there were some use case descriptions related to hypermedia control already
Sebastian: Let's start with looking into
the Oracle and Mozilla use cases
... w.r.t. PlugFest
... we have 2 versions on the table. shall we pick one or check
out both
... my feeling is we might want to evaluate both
Ege: +1
Kaz: after clarifying the use cases and requirements, we could clarify which would be better. or there is a possibility that both approaches could be handled
Sebastian: Suggest merging PR 907
<kaz> [PR 907 has been merged]
Sebastian: T2T discussions on Monday will be helpful also
<sebastian> Issue 307
Sebastian: Next issue $ref
... initiated by Toru a while ago
... use $ref from JSON schema in TD also
... allows to define model in global space and point to it
(reduces redundancy)
... I support introducing $ref
Ege: there is one limitation:
validate input/output by getting schema
... input for example is not any longer self-contained
<kaz> Example 1
Sebastian: whole TD is JSON schema valid
Ege: Correct, but validation would like to check value only
Daniel: Dynamically updating json schema constructs
Ege: Correct, or passing multiple schemas to validators
<Ege> https://github.com/tum-esi/wot-sys/blob/master/Devices/nodewot-pantilthat/src/base.ts#L315
Ege: "outer" definitions are not visible to validators
Sebastian: Correct. We need to combine
the outer definitions with the interaction type
definitions
... Shall we work on proposal
Klaus: $ref at JSON level or TD
level
... recommand TD level
Daniel: Support having one global space for definitions
Sebastian: Question: allowing referring to "external" files
Klaus: Useful, but what happens IF TD is retrieved from somewhere et cetera.. or should it selfContained
<Ege> I need to leave now :)
<Ege> See you next week
Klaus: compromise: TD
templates
... TD might be better selfContained
... oneSDF / WISHI has same discussion
Kaz: old issue, so maybe kind of related to Kajimoto-san's object-oriented project. however, I think this is definitely related to the TD Template discussion.
... so we should think about use cases and requirements for
both this proposal and the TD Template proposal a bit more, and
then get back to this proposal itself later.
... relates to TD template as well
Sebastian: Not sure if it fully tackles Kajimoto-Sans proposal/idea
Kaz: yeah, this proposal #307 might be not directly taking over Kajimoto-san's idea, but we should work on requirements first
Sebastian: Will work on proposal and requirements
Daniel: I am interested also
<sebastian> Issue 908
Sebastian: Next issue, 908, no default value for observable
Klaus: what does "observable" mean? not intersting to observe or possible to observe
Sebastian: observable does not say anything about stability of value
Daniel: not much value in observable
Klaus: +1
Sebastian: talked about a bit
... test new terms, long running actions
... maybe CoAP RDF is ready
Sebastian: Any input?
... feeback from PF about long running actions
... TD templates
... $ref/definitions from JSON schema
... oneDM TDT
... iotschema
... please contact me via email if you have more topics
Kaz: CoAP RDF ontology
Sebastian: Yes
... Next week I am on vacation. I will ask Taki to moderate
<kaz> [adjourned]