Silver xR subgroup

04 May 2020


jasonjgw, Joshue108, sajkaj, jeanne, judy
Janina, jeanne


<scribe> scribe: jeanne

Intro and why talking together matters

Janina: We have two people from WCAG3 which is supposed to address emerging technologies.
... for some technologies, such as xR (virtual & augmented reality)
... RQTF can inform the work in WCAG3 and WCAG3 could inform the RQTF

Josh: The timing is great. It's been on my radar for a long while
... from the emerging tech side, I'm interested in developing techniques for emerging tech
... there is a lot of good work in RQTF

Jason: I'm helping facility matters on the RQTF side. For a first approximation there are two parts of the RQTF task force work: reviewing research paper and issues, and careful discussion of issues related to the emerging tech.
... a slight danger to looking at "emerging technologiess" that WCAG3 is doing
... numerous applications are out there already and they have to be included in W3C Technologies. THey will be even more important by the time we get to REC.

<Joshue108> JS: I've been fascinated in XR for a long time, and esp the a11y angle.

<Joshue108> I'd like to see what will work in the short term.

<Joshue108> Keeping in mind the long term perspective.

<Joshue108> Scope is an issue - we have restrictions in our charter.

<Joshue108> There is great opportunity and also need.

<Joshue108> WCAG needs to show that it can accommodate emerging tech.

<Joshue108> JS: You are looking for low hanging fruit.

<Joshue108> JS: Yes we are :-)

Judy: I think that it is critically important that WCAG 3.0 has some content that is beyond desktop web and mobile and goes into the web aspect of emerging tech
... getting the document framework together that brings different people to the table that the content side
... we shouldn't wait for the content experts to start working on emerging content
... of course we won't attract experts until we start working
... I have a different perspective on scope, because we will tie it to web. There is a lot we can say from a web viewpoint. There are a dozen groups in W3C that are working on xR

<Joshue108> JS: I'm in agreement with you Judy - was responding to earlier comment with Jason.

<Joshue108> The scope is web.

Janina: RTC is another area of emerging tech that would be very valuable right now.
... video description is pointing the MAUR and saying it pertains, and how it pertains
... in an entertainment space, you may have to cut off descriptions to fit the time, while in education, the thorough description is more important than keeping the timing.
... someone should start writing up captions

Judy: We are talking about captions in Immersive Captions CG. We are discussing that in WCAG 2.2 that sets a foundation of what we could do in WCAG3.
... we aren't saying enough about video conference accessibility, but that could be done in WCAG 2.2

<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask more about low hanging fruit and options

Josh: What could we do and what is it required?

Janina: We don't have the people on the call to talk about 2.2

Judy: Captioning for video conferences could be done in 2.2 as long as we don't mess with the success criteria

Josh: We have user needs for WCAG3
... what we have the basis of frameworks: User needs, gap analysis. There are new techniques needed.
... an extension of existing success criteria

<Joshue108> JS: I'd like to answer that!

<Joshue108> JS: Some on the call may not know where WCAG 3.0 is at now.

<Joshue108> We are looking at a new structure - guidelines that are tech independent.

<Joshue108> I was thinking we may need a guideline for XR - but may not be ready for that.

<Joshue108> When talking about low hanging fruit, it could be a method that relates to XR but sits under a general principle.

<Joshue108> Not SC specific pass stuff - we want to get away from that orientation.

<Joshue108> Need a broader implementation level.

<Joshue108> Captioning may be the low hanging fruit - we have a captioning guideline.

<Joshue108> @RTC could also fit the bill for some of this Jeanne.

Janina: What we know about a basic concept needs to be implemented specifically in xR: for example, what you are captioning may not be in the immediate field of view -- they may be behind you, and therefore it has to be queued up.

Judy: There are captioning user requirements being developed. The granularity and usefulness that is coming out of research is exciting.
... the xR Access community group is pulling together stakeholder use cases for xR.
... Larry Goldberg said that the framework may serve multiple disability communities.

<Zakim> sajkaj, you wanted to talk about an xr guideline

Judy: there is interesting work to be piggybacked on
... VR space with high quality audio, is even more immersive. We need spacial audio in a guidelines environment.

Janina: If you have two ears working, or if you have hearing loss, you still have an immersive experience.

Judy: multiple disaiblities

Jason: We need a gap analysis for WCAG3. We need to make the RQTF work be relevant to what WCAG3 needs.
... we have to have a framework for collaboration across RQTF, XR and WCAG3
... we need to be thinking about Techniques to develop, the technology dependent guidance. We have to look at the broader general principles that need to apply across technolgies, so that everything that is supposed to be included in the guideline is included.

<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to talk about A11y Architecture

<Judy> mutatis mutandis == change the least possible

Jason: careful alignment of work across groups that is the greatest importance here.

Joshue: There is other work in RQTF on accessibility architecture.

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebXR_Standards_and_Accessibility_Architecture_Issues

Joshue: one is the WebXR Accessibility ARchitecture Issues
... excellent contributors to this document. It's a jumping off point.

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/XRA-Semantics-Module

Joshue: Also assistive technology semantics for WebXR
... it's important for known 2D content, we have known architecture for Assistive Tech. We don't have that for 3D. Certain things for XR will be less challenging, but there are other things that may be quantum leaps.

Janina: I would like to start wrapping up
... thanks for the overview.
... we need a low hanging fruit for a FPWD that is months away
... Could some of the active members of the XR Captioning start writing up and follow the WCAG3 template?

Judy: Our focus is 2.2 because that is more immanent, but I can ask.
... THere are scores of potential requirements that are needed just for captioning. We have been looking for a working taxonomy. '
... for something that is truly a gap so it is normative

Janina: The principle is that something that is not in your field of vision needs to be captioned.

Judy: That's interesting, and would prime the pump for how to do it.

<Joshue108> JS: I can help you Janina/

Janina: I think we could do that and people would grok it.

Judy: If it is something in WCAG3 that didn't come out of the group from the deaf community.
... I'm multitasking and can't send it right now, but I will send it.

Jason: we don't know where the various components to satisfy the requirements aren't going to reside.
... especially where guidance related to authoring tools and user agents
... it's still directed toward application developers.

Janina: We are looking for what the API is going to support. WCAG3 will say, this is what the API needs to support and this is how you know that it is working.

Jason: THe guideline layer is going to be the general and the technology supported part is not easily updated. It will be important that the normative and abstract portion clearly addresses the issues that the methods are defined for.

Janina: The incontrovertable is likely to be a problem. We are working toward "can you do this enough, or can you do a really good job of developing"

<Joshue108> JS: WCAG has the past fail at a different level.

<Joshue108> The SCs are normative and the guidelines dont have specificity to make descisions about pass fail.

<Joshue108> The overall score that you get should be a reflection of how good the job is over all.

<Joshue108> There may be a fail level that says anything below number x is a fail.

<Joshue108> There will be an overall score etc - but moving away from individual pass fail.

<Joshue108> So its about how good a job you are doing..

Janina: VR in remote conferencing.

Judy: there is a group that is working on, @@, a VR remote conference addon to Zoom.

Janina: Judy will give us a list of what the group is working on

<Joshue108> JS: We are waiting for virtual F2F this week..

Janina: Jeanne and Janina are going to write up an early draft of the captions in VR and send it back to the group for comments
... Judy will take it up with CG.

Judy: The CG group is focusing on 2.2

Janina: We need to cross-communicate within the groups.

<Joshue108> JS: Will I ask Michael to set up a list?

<Joshue108> JB: Batch mail would be good for now..

<Joshue108> JS: Works for me.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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Present: jasonjgw Joshue108 sajkaj jeanne judy
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