01 May 2020


jeanne, Chuck, Lauriat, bbailey, CharlesHall, JF, sajkaj, OmarBonilla, KimD, Makoto, Fazio, ChrisLoiselle, bruce_bailey, shari, kirkwood, Jan, Rachael


<scribe> scribe: ChrisLoiselle

Essentials for Publishing approved by AGWG (assuming someone else can speak to this?)

<Lauriat> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tQHgVFaJYS1WWs9BKucZxWboMNVuclvdNqnQuzPbWwY/edit#heading=h.js6lw2htvj4l

Chuck: This was the agreed upon document for wcag3. I'm not aware of any comments.

No comments on it...

Rachael: We reviewed this document on the AGWG Tuesday group and it was accepted.

Once it is drafted, AG will review for agreement.

ShawnL: this is not how we will demonstrate these things , but gives us a baseline as to how we will develop moving forward in an interative approach

MichaelC did seek permissive approval on this per voting / agreements

FPWD publication of the Challenges doc

<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-conformance-challenges/

<sajkaj> https://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-conformance-challenges/

sajkaj: email to go out soon. The home page does talk to it , and asks for comments on it.

Challenges were short name of link. accessibility-conformance-challenges is the short name. It is a database identifier and descriptive and accurate.

Shawn and Judy will may edit , but not anything regarding any comments made or anything of that nature. Synchronized effort ...

I can forward when it hits the wai interest list and we can forward to all.

BruceB: An announcement usually goes out for public to comment on, for section 508 coordinators. When is that going out ?

sajkaj: Probably within a couple of days, we can forward it to both lists

subgroup checkin

<Fazio> 2 from COGA

<Fazio> Content Usable is up for CFC I believe

BruceB: My two groups visual contrast group and the other group are working .

DavidF: we have two representatives from COGA. We are looking at visual indicators to silver

Rachael: Plain language has not met , but will be providing an update soon.

Let's define what we mean by "task" in terms of conformance (with a potential side effect of having come up with a better term to use for it)

<sajkaj> suggestion: "Successfully doing the thing you went to a particular web address to do"

ShawnL: Task in conformance. Stuff that people are trying to do. I.e. joining a call on zoom. Or joe's blog with no interactive bits other than reading his blog posts.

<sajkaj> +1 that joe's blog reading is a task

<bruce_bailey> +1

<CharlesHall> examples of tasks will help

DavidF: sticking within wireframing terminology would give perspective to designers and testers.

<CharlesHall> “the thing” should be up to the author to scope though

<kirkwood> +1

<Lauriat> +1

<CharlesHall> like “read article” is fine as a task

<Fazio> Which goes to the wire framing point

<Rachael> From https://uxdesign.cc/start-designing-with-goals-in-mind-4723df5f8e88 Task: A task is a step taken by the user during the process of achieving a goal. In order to achieve a goal, users have to navigate through multiple steps completing small tasks. The information architecture of a digital product is formed by tasks.

<bruce_bailey> +1 for using UX definition for term

Rachael: Goals and Tasks. Tasks are steps / journeys to achieve goals.

<sajkaj> +1 to Rachael

<CharlesHall> +1. but tasks can also be singular without a dependency on sequential.

<KimD> +1

<kirkwood> +1

ShawnL: Should we look at user goals and tasks to achieve them?

<CharlesHall> we also have within the field of ux a method for determining top tasks, called top task analysis – which i have shared previously

ShawnL: Ordering a pizza. You can choose what pizza to order. How to get to the store. Finding hours of operation.

<Lauriat> 1. Load the pizza restaurant's site

<Lauriat> 2. Navigate to contact page (composite, describes one possible path)

<Lauriat> 3. Navigate to text containing the hours of operation (composite)

<CharlesHall> navigate to. navigate in. find content. read.

Substeps of there own on possible paths is also there as well. I.e. search feature.

sajkaj: I don't think we want to be prescriptive. I think this becomes guidance toward scoping.

BruceB: Loading a website isn't a task. For pizza, I would want to order a pizza, which is the goal.

sajkaj: I would want to know if my pizza hadn't been picked up yet.

DavidF: Ordering food will be delivered at "X" time. The delivery time actually changed multiple times. The driver hadn't picked up... if no tracking capabilities, it would have shown up six hours late.

ShawnL: We'd need to define if functionality is necessary, we can't leave out others who can't access the functionality.

DavidF: We'd need to define what is necessary.

ShawnL: If a pizza company has an off in the corner game, that would be its own task. If they provided the game to now past the time as you are tracking the order , it is now scoped to the order of pizza rather than a one off scoping item.

sajkaj and DavidF: If we relate to UX, the smarter we are for doing so.

BruceB: Advertisements and accessibility. Are they able to interact with marketing to get a coupon? Then there would be a benefit and should be in scope of task.

<bruce_bailey> Here is the exception language we use in 508:

<bruce_bailey> 6. Speech output shall not be required for advertisements and other similar information unless they convey information that can be used for the transaction being conducted.

<bruce_bailey> That is from 402.2 Speech-Output Enabled.

ShawnL: Prescriptive but not required on "what is a task" , what is a user journey?

DavidF: Barriers must be removed when achievable , would putting language in there for recommendation on implementation be worthwhile?

<KimD> +1 to DFazio - at least identifying whether we intend this to be for new builds or/and retrofitting

KimD: One of the complicated things about wcag is do we have to retrofit? I think the transparency for this would be worthwhile to distinguish.

<Fazio> we had an archiving conversation awhile back

<Fazio> sometimes archives need to be accessible no matter how old because people research them and or still use them

BruceB: I feel we leave that to the regulators, which they then would turn into law...

KimD: Information and perspective to help guide decisions would be good to have.

<kirkwood> +1 to Shawn (same situation)

<Fazio> retrofitting falls into that a readily achievable point

ShawnL: Maybe we talk to this within the understanding documentation, on different types of apps on guidance. As of "X" date, retrofitting for this "X" criteria is going to be "X". I.e. existing vs. new build

<Fazio> Implied intent is terrible to navigate

KimD: Legislative intent would benefit , if it was included in scope or intent of our goals.

Omar: If we do decide retrofitting is part of this and there is a threshold, how explicit do we make it to make it useful? I.e. procuring products with accessibility problems.

Is there a weighting system , how is it actionable in decisions?

Impact to user is same...as a purchaser, what will it take to make the product more accessible for retrofitting. Is it possible to get a window into how accessible the product will be in future?

<Fazio> IAAP is developing a procurement program to vet accessibility

<Fazio> A certification program

Great, thanks Shawn

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
$Date: 2020/05/01 19:17:20 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154  of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Default Present: jeanne, Chuck, Lauriat, bbailey, CharlesHall, JF, sajkaj, OmarBonilla, KimD, Makoto, Fazio, ChrisLoiselle, bruce_bailey, shari, kirkwood, Jan, Rachael
Present: jeanne Chuck Lauriat bbailey CharlesHall JF sajkaj OmarBonilla KimD Makoto Fazio ChrisLoiselle bruce_bailey shari kirkwood Jan Rachael
Found Scribe: ChrisLoiselle
Inferring ScribeNick: ChrisLoiselle

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]