ARIA and Assistive Tech Community Group Telecon

29 Apr 2020


jongund, Joe_Humbert, Matt_King, isaacdurazo, Jemma


<scribe> scribe: jongund

MK: Listing agenda items
... Home page discussion is higher priority

Create tests for APG design pattern: checkbox


MF: I can be the timer

MK: If I want to change the assertions, what I should do is change the CSV file

JG: Just edit the CSV and then generate the test files

MK: Is there any reason to generate the test files?

JG: Yout can view them using the local server

<zcorpan> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/157

SP: The is issue 157, so there may not be good to generate the test files
... Not checking in the test files will reduce conflicits

MK: If you do it this way, after your merge the commit, that means the ..
... Someone with access master would generate

SP: There would be a separate place they would be built, they would not be in master

MK: We will not be using github pages for very long
... I am fine not generating page in a PR

SP: We should probably generate them for now

JG: The author needs to see if what they created in the CSV files works

SP: There will be a CI process to generate the pages

MK: I was hoping to,.... we need to separate the assertions for getting into and out of a group
... Right now the current assertion wording is not working, I am working on modifying them
... You can expect a PR and hopefully a no brainer for review

MF: Is this the simple checkbox?

MK: This is grouped checkbox
... We can put the code for the simple checkbox into the repo

MF: I put this into the checkbox issue awhilw back, there is also have UL/LI markup in the example

MK: I will not address that in the current PR

Create tests for APG design pattern: menubar


MK: I have not reviewed

MF: We added some information on current SR behavior of the menu on the Firefox browser

MK: There needs to be some alignment between our assertions and what we found

MF: I have not reviewed
... How is the sign off going to work for a test

MK: It is this group that says its good enough for the screen reader people to test
... Given wear we are in time, I am not personally comfortable giving something to a screen reader developers until I have persoanally used
... I have a lot invested in getting the screen reader people on board

JG: I can look at it more this week to

MK: There is a reference now

Create tests for APG example: Editable Combobox With Both List and Inline Autocomplete

MK: We are punting on this right now

JG: trying to close

"applies_to" key needs to have correct VoiceOver string


SP: I want to make sure someone will make this change

MF: I can make the change
... We need to update all the CSV files?

SP: Yes and regenerate

MK: Which CSV files?
... Will it affect what I am working on?

MF: I will do it tomorrow or Friday

MK: I will not worry about it

Aria AT - Reports Home Page


Isaac: At a version both AT and browsers, the team says thats pretty easy to add

SP: You mean operating system

MK: When you read across a row, you would see both the screen reader, browser and operating system

<Jemma> Is this where I can see most updated mock up, https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/wiki/Aria-AT-Wireframes?

<Joe_Humbert> https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/159#issuecomment-620149068

MK: Just the major version of the browser
... It would be really clear what AT and browser you were testing
... Sorting on plan and browser, I sugested all
... I meant descending on date of creation

Isaac: I am wondering if that information can be hidden some how, I will talk to Valarie..

<Joe_Humbert> the one in github has changed

MK: The most recent test cycles at the top, sorting by AT next

Isaac: The test plan and then browser

Isacc: I want to discuss the filter mechanism

MK: What for AT and status (draft or final), for view 1
... I am not real keen on the global one, because you cannot make it a select
... We need another 5 minutes on this one

Isaac: That is a good point, from the global one they will type on Jaws or j

MK: For the global one you don't know what you are filtering on
... Even in the longer term, if you don't type it right. when there is VO for macOS and iOS, you need to filter on these

SP: Don't we want to filter on more than one AT

MK: I think on version 2
... I am just thing about what we need right now, we are only working with 3 ATs
... Are non-goals were to make it easy to compare ATs

JH: If you filter on Jaws on the long run, the others can be added in V2
... Make it easier for this vision

JK: what is the meaning of "global"??

Isaac: anything in the table can be searched

MK: You couldn't search for JAWS draft results

Isacc: I will double check with them

MK: If for a V1 requirement, super easy to implement
... Just ask from an engineering side, filter on AT status draft or final, at developers may want that

JH: I think you can do that with global, it would either sort those first or last

MK: I was thinking about how this evolves long term. do you want to keep the global and how it would work with other filtering

JK: Global is vague and might not meet immediate user needs

MK: Let's get some feedback from the engineers
... We can switch from global to more specific at a later time, if global works not and is easiest

Isacc: We still have a couple weeks before we work on these pages

MK: If you first sorted by plan and then by browser, what I would hope ..., it sorts everything by plan, checkbox...
... Looking at example in issue
... If you sort by plan and by browser, it would still be sorted by plan and browser
... You would have everything for given AT and then everything in Jaws and Chrome would be together
... Multi-level sorting

Isaac: That was what I was thinking

JH: That seems to be complex

MK: Long term you could have a multi-sort dialog

JH: It is more complex than the standard sort by column

MK: If the sort algorithm is to hard..

Isacc: I will bring to the team

MK: Anything on the reports home page, is there a summary of results, like percent passing

Isacc: I will ask the engineers

MK: The numbers should be based on final tests not drafts

MF: Things we are not trying to do
... Do we want to compare screen readers at a high level?

MK: I can go either way, it is nice to have a summary
... We can ask our stake holders
... JC never said there is nothing wrong with shaming, not everyone would agree

SP: The way we present results, does into lump everything into a score

MF: Will this accomplish the non-goal

<Jemma> but when John Folio mentioned "can I use?", doesn't it imply the comparision among screen readers?

MK: It you have 60-70 results, is the average meaningful?
... I am not sure that it would

zkaim, next item

Which browser / AT combinations to test


SP: We have not decided that we wll test FF and Edge with Jaws
... We need to test exact versions, so testers know what they need

MK: Can we do the second one first
... Should we cater to the screen reader ..
... If edge and chrome are exactly the same, then maybe we don't need to do both
... Let Jaws have the final word

SP: It also effects there product

MF: There could be browser bugs

JH: I am comfortable setting up VM, other testers may not want to use older version of browsers

MK: Take Googles input and work with the other stakeholders
... How long that test cycle may take, we start with Chrome 81 and part way through the release to 82, some people maynot be able to stay on 81
... That will not ever happen with assistive technologies
... I don't know what we do if browser automatically update
... Do we have mixed results?

MF: I am thinking outside the box right now
... There is another project that you can pick specific borwsers or browser/ATs to build a VM

MK: How would that work with SR?

JH: It will not work very well for screen readers

MK: We want to make sure screen reader users

JH: If there is a company that can host a VM for all testers to use

got to go

<Jemma> MF: I can find more information about this.

<Jemma> MK: you can add what you found to the issue.

<Jemma> MF: I will give you the direct contact to this person, Matt.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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Present: jongund Joe_Humbert Matt_King isaacdurazo Jemma
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