Silver Task Force & Community Group

24 Apr 2020


jeanne2, KimD, Chuck, Fazio, OmarBonilla, Rachael, CharlesHall, PeterKorn, sajkaj, Lauriat, AngelaAccessForAll, Jan, kirkwood
Shawn, jeanne


<CharlesHall> only getting zoom audio in left channel. anyone else?

<Fazio> sorry I'm a horrible scribe

Essentials for Publishing sent to AGWG

<AngelaAccessForAll> Hi, where are we all dialed in? I was the only one on Zoom. :-)

<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/telecon-info_silver-fri

<AngelaAccessForAll> thanks!

<scribe> scribe:KimD

<CharlesHall> all groups MichaelC has set up, mostly in Zoom: https://www.w3.org/2017/01/telecon-info/telecon-list

<jeanne2> Essentials for Publishing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tQHgVFaJYS1WWs9BKucZxWboMNVuclvdNqnQuzPbWwY/edit#heading=h.js6lw2htvj4l

Jeanne: Did a number of edits based on discussion

Updating the instructions for writing content - functional outcome instructions

Jeanne: It will be discussed in AGWG Tuesday, please attend if you are a member

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask about ePUB accessibility

Lauriat: Q: What's the relationship between this doc and the ePub doc?

Is it a refresh, or replace? Or...

Jeanne: Guidelines that we want to include with Silver (from ePub)

Lauriat: so replacing ePub?

Jeanne: I believe so

Peter: where is this discussion?

Jeanne: it's in the WAI coordination call.

Peter: ePub is a specialization, likely want to have things there re:books.
... may be differences that don't overlap well.
... may give rough edges... feels more right to have them separate
... compare accessible PDF doc requirements to WCAG

Jeanne: Historically, ePub is another tech platform, and we want Silver to include additional platforms.

<Lauriat> +1, but I think we can talk about how we might support that. Same will ring true for xaur and other platforms implemented in web technologies.

Jeanne: That's how it got in. We can discuss more and figure it out.
... If we can't do it well, that's a structural flaw.

Peter: important that eBook and book need to share page numbers - a different from the web
... then techniques start to look like SCs

Janina: starts to break down when they need to diverge. Then we start having too many specs.

Peter: Not saying they have no relationship to each other, but one standard that rules them all may give too many rough edges.

<PeterKorn> What is xaur?

<CharlesHall> +1 to Janina

Janina: XR, we're not going to create an XR spec, but want to give info about making XR stuff accessible

<Lauriat> +1 to Janina, that exactly.

Jeanne: XR is augmented reality

<CharlesHall> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Xaur_draft#XR_Checkpoints_DRAFT

<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to mention applicability in the IA we've worked on so far.

Janina: discussed at TPAC last year

Lauriat: Work like Janina described.
... Captions apply to web and XR, so method for each would be included
... Some difference but also overlap. Peter's example about page numbers is a good example
... we could have a guideline that talks about that, but it would only apply to ePub

MC: adding on to Shaun's point. Filterable tokens for subject

<Lauriat> +1 to Michael

Jeanne: Noting link from Charles above
... Back to agenda...
... updates to the content, per Rachael.

<jeanne2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gfYAiV2Z-FA_kEHYlLV32J8ClNEGPxRgSIohu3gUHEA/

Jeanne: Peter

Peter: to previous agenda item, discussion about ePub and how it fits it, we should include in doc

Lauriat: agree

Peter: Same with any other platform - we want to put it out there and give people a chance to comment.

Jeanne: added to the list

Peter: add to google doc:

Jeanne: in the essentials for publishing list

Peter: not seeing it, could have missed it

Jeanne: it should be intro section
... briefly mentions added in ePub, will add to frameworks section
... if someone has it open, please add a note

Peter: Doing it now

<PeterKorn> done

Jeanne: back to content writting

<Lauriat> Thanks, Peter!

<jeanne2> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gfYAiV2Z-FA_kEHYlLV32J8ClNEGPxRgSIohu3gUHEA/

Jeanne: need to have it updated so various subgroups can start writing and we can have new subgroups
... did a lot of small edits
... writing the functional outcomes tricky. In define user need now. Where should it go?
... need to have more discussion

<jeanne2> Write the Functional Outcomes. Functional Outcomes are one sentence written in plain language (or as close as you can get) with two clauses:

<jeanne2> The first clause describes the result if the user need is being met.

<jeanne2> The second clause describes how it benefits the user.

<jeanne2> For example: “Headings are visually distinct so sighted readers can determine the structure.

Jeanne: reads through examples & will paste in.

<Fazio> Are we strict on the 1 sentence?

Jeanne: 1) is this how we want to do it and 2) is this where we want it?
... we don't have to keep it at 1 sentence, but should be simple.

Fazio: for cognitive, might be confusing if it's not clear

Jeanne: one sentence per functional outcome.

Fazio: ok, short and sweet... I see

<Fazio> +1 User Needs

Jeanne: location ok? Could go in testing.

<Fazio> But I'm open to argument

Jeanne: think about it, let's talk more on Tues

organizing subgroups

<Rachael> no

Jeanne: Any progress on getting your group started up again?
... subgroups

<scribe> ... no progress on plain language

Chuck: no progress on color contrast. Will have my peer kick it off in the coming week

<Fazio> I'm down

Jeanne: new list of AGWG volunteers for subgroups
... will send out an email with those subgroups who are looking for more people.
... let me know and I'll add you to the list if you need more
... Makoto is ok, will be starting his group up again.
... starting a group for XR
... Janina, want to talk more about this

Janina: there may be things that are unique to XR, but many things similar to other tech
... but with additional considerations. Captions
... good example of overlap - but XR is 360 degrees...
... still need a caption, but it could be behind you. How to signify that?

<CharlesHall> so spatial direction becomes a XR method within the general guideline

Janina: community groups looking at this.
... trying to tease out requirements for XR, have well over 30 comments so far
... wanted to invite Jason and Josh to conversation about XR and how to handle that
... make sense?

Jeanne: to group: an AGWG chair wanted to include emerging tech to our FPWD
... want to show that it will work.
... how would it work?

Janina: I can see how to do it, may have new requirements
... would still apply, needs still valid, in different tech

<Lauriat> +1 to Charles, though we already have that user need in flat screens. Captions can show the location of someone offscreen.

Janina: I think there's a way to do that.

Jeanne: to Shaun: let's talk to the chair to see if captioning would meet it

Lauriat: One tweaked method might now be enough
... may need more substance

Charles: Is the request for a guideline specific to XR

Jeanne: wants a guideline, not a method.
... we may need to have the conversation with him

<PeterKorn> Apologies - I need to drop early.

SL: start with what the goal is by including different tech

Jeanne: anything else from subgroup or potential subgroups?
... we'll start checking in with subgroups again

continuing the discussion on defining scope and how to include guidelines that apply to an entire screen or group of screens

Jeanne: this week I started picking up loose threads re: where we are in conformance
... we've figured out essential small things, but hard to keep track of

<jeanne2> wiki - https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Conformance_Issues_and_Decisions

Jeanne: started a Wiki page to keep track
... starting noting things we figured out in the past, but not as settled as resolutions
... may have to adjust
... if there are things that are missing, please edit wiki page or send Jeanne an email.
... went back a few meetings, so could be more
... one of the things needing more work: from last Tues, scope
... how do we handle scope for projects?
... might be one screen or multiple screens.
... let's hammer out the details
... 10 mins left. Ideas about this now, or start next week?

SL: my thoughts:
... thinking about similar to non-interference today.
... narrow scope of conformance, but where conflicts, still included in the scope
... example, our scope is the crossword puzzle of NYTimes, but still have to navigate to it.
... so dependencies need to be included.

Janina: sounds like software dependencies

SL: another example, third-party stuff could still be in scope.
... scope included third-party bugs

Jeanne: even in small scope, could include almost everything on that page, for example

SL: JF's example, on a series of web pages, and headings are part of the path, then include...
... but if not impacting the page, then doesn't matter
... this is where task-bases is so important to scope
... reflects the the user's interaction
... without getting into details, does that give us a direction?
... or need more info to get started?

Jeanne: any subpoints that need to be figured out/defines?
... Like what's essential to task?

SL: what is scope of conformance for silver?
... today, could say a button complies, but not a helpful conformance claim
... but need to have context or task so it's meaningful
... the collection of things making up the task are the scope of conformance

Jeanne: I thought what you were saying last week was about a logical collection

SL: collection of tasks
... these are the things that support the user's tasks
... describe steps that task

Janina: willing to write this up
... might be a page, pretty short
... kind of same concept as an accessible path in a building.
... just the room being accessible isn't enough - need how to get there.

SL: distractions you walk by (flashing light) need to be included

Omar: (intro) First meeting, but task-based very important to convey to UX designers because they think about user flow


<Fazio> nice to have you join us Omar

<Lauriat> +1 (and welcome!)

<OmarBonilla> Thank you! Happy to join you all.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: jeanne2 KimD Chuck Fazio OmarBonilla Rachael CharlesHall PeterKorn sajkaj Lauriat AngelaAccessForAll Jan kirkwood
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