<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: charlesl1

<scribe> scribe: CharlesL1

<JF> +1 moving to Zoom

Janina: proposal is to move to zoom. hopefully this is last webEx.

<LisaSeemanKest> +1

Janina: strong support. please +1 that email Thread.

Lisa: FYI, is transcribing for sign language supported?

<LisaSeemanKest> =1

Janina, did webex support this? zoom is most accessible but may not have everything. Zoom seems responsive. We just had a call with Judy. I presume, you can have Pic / in / pic. but there are certainly do yet.

scribe: if you have Bluetooth headphones and the screen goes blank, you turn off bluetooth then turn back on to go past.

<becky> saw this today: https://mosen.org/zoom/ Free audiobook, “Meet Me Accessibly – A Guide to Zoom Cloud Meetings from a Blindness Perspective”

scribe: zoom has a published a11y policy
... we should document all of that and file issues with Zoom regarding a11y.
... Deaf community may say that automated captioning will have too many mistakes.

<LisaSeemanKest> west.com is quite acessible and has automatic captioning

scribe: there is automated captioning in zoom.

Charles: there is auto transcript but not very accurate and you must record to cloud

Janina: we are locked into vendor specific solutions right now, ideally we this will be like email and you can use whatever client but we are not there yet.

JF: dequeue uses Zoom and right now zoom is the most responsive, nothing is perfect but we have worked with them and use them for all our meetings.

Lisa: I personally like West, but I am a +1 for zoom.

Janina: we are not paying for it. with MIT license. so this is a big deal that we piggy back on this.

Lisa: +1.

Becky: West.com is not Comato.com (talks about 911, global based, safety alerts)

Lisa: I have used it for teleconferencing

Janina: Jitsy.com is another one there are a lot of them.

Lisa: West.com did put in new features, but I have done some initial testing. there weren't perfect and you can break it but do it accessibly.

Janina: even if West.com was better it will take a long time to get it for W3C, but zoom we can put up now, any others we can't.

Roy: for zoom if we want 1/2 hour meeting I can create a zoom meeting room.

Janina: We should set it up for this call and the coordination call.

Roy: OK

Charles: I will be stepping down co-facilitator for this TF mainly due to the fact that I have been given additional responsibilities at DIAGRAM Center to be the new project manager for Imageshare. I will still try to make these calls but at a reduced capacity. Thank you for everything this has been a wonderful experience and has made me grow personally.

Lisa: big thanks for the fantastic job that you have done.

issues review and actions

Lisa: John did you make any progress with the TAG explainer.

JF: Sorry Lisa, was really busy last week.

Lisa: Becky you were down for a few things.

<JF> ACTIONS?

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Mar/0016.html

Becky: I responded, and posted to the list my suggested responces to the I18N

<becky> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Mar/0015.html

Becky: response from I18N, numerical tokens to symbol sets… replacing word with # initially seems ok. use of numbers to spell the phrase "Cup of Tea" which depends on grammar and same symbol could be used for different concepts. similar to emoji's.
... <proposed answer>

We are using a fixed set of numbers to represent each symbol. While we are using the BLISS symbol numbers as our reference, makers of other symbols sets will provide the mapping to their own set. The assistive technology will use the mapping table for the current user’s culturally appropriate symbol set. Given the example of two symbols for cup of tea, another symbol set may have only one symbol represent the same concept. I

f so, the mapping table would map the two numbers together into it’s own single symbol. If the author refers only to “tea,” and is not specific that it is a cup the mapping may be different. It is the responsibility of the creators of the mapping table to understand the nuances of the languages and how the symbols relate to one another. Thus, one symbol may map to multiple, grouped symbols. Or, vice versa, multiple, groupe

d symbols may map back to only one. It is the responsibility of the creators of the mapping tables to understand the nuances and cultural implications of the symbol set.

</proposed answer>

scribe: <Becky’s comment>

I’m still not sure that answers the question. This implies that the content author understands the difference as well. What if the sentence was, “John and Mary met for tea.” From the use of the verb “met", this implies (at least to me in the US) meeting for a cup of tea rather than to shop for tea or tea bags. The author has to know to search for a number value in our mapping table that represents cup or tea, rather th

an one for just tea. If the author picks the symbol identified as “tea” and it maps to a tea bag, that may change the meaning of the sentence. I hope that a tea bag would be identified within the symbol set with a different label than just “tea”. Or that a user of the symbol set is able to detect the nuance. Is that a reasonable expectation? Unless they are familiar with symbol sets and how they work, I don’t think mo

st content authors would understand the distinction. If not for participation in this task force, I would not. Perhaps I am overthinking this?

</becky’s comment>

JF: we are not involved with Grammar. we are taking largest Symbol set (royalty free) largest using this as our base taxonomy.
... we are not getting involved with grammar just proving machine translations. we can't offer much more than that, we are not creating an authoring system.

Becky: I am soposto look up the symbol for "tea" but didn't realize there is a symbol for "cup of tea"

Lisa: culture appropriate symbols, when they map to the symbol they will us the one culture appropriate which is at the user agent end. they will have the culturally approprate symbol.
... many to one mappings when you have a symbol like "cup of tea" especially where you have languages where 1 word in one language maps to 3 terms in a different language.
... maybe we can write something in our spec which clarifies this.

Becky: yes I still have a task to look at Sam's issue which he raised this point.

Lisa: I think this is fine, but action to add some sentences to use the symbols correctly into our spec.
... may be a many to one mapping, to be aware. worth saying to authors that you have the concept not the word.

Charles: should we have a recommendation for mapping like "tea" see also "Cup of tea" or "tea bag"

Lisa: additional modules recommendations for mappings, in best practices

Becky: I will put in an issue to add a best practices for implementors, related concepts for mappings.

<LisaSeemanKest_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2020Mar/0016.html

Question:

If the spec (or its implementation) allows the user to point into text, creates text fragments, concatenates text, allows the user to select or step through text (using a cursor or other methods), etc.

Our answer: Simplification allows for replacing sections of text with an alternative text, which the author will provide.

I18N response:

It doesn't appear that this spec defines how "sections of text" are selected or created. Our concerns here generally have to do with how text is broken into subcomponents (such as words).

Proposed response:

Correct, the Simplification specification provides specific attribute values that specify the level of simplification needed. The assistive technology is responsible for providing the necessary modifications to meet the user’s needs. This may include the replacement of text but the author of the alternative text is responsible for any internationalization of that text. The author of the alternative text is the assisstive techn

ology. The original content author just identifies the sections that may need simplifying.

Becky’s comment. I think the reviewers were a bit confused about why we referred to alternative text. Perhaps because we referred to it as the “author’s” responsibility. I think we meant that to be assistive technology or author of the alternative text??

Lisa: in the next module, we will need to do this.
... in this module this won't be an issue.

Becky: Ok I will draft something to respond to them.

Question:

If the spec (or its implementation) allows any character encoding other than UTF-8.

Our Answer: We support UTF-8 but we anticipates supporting UTF-16 for symbol sets and there is nothing in our spec that would prevent this.

I18N response:

This statement is unclear. UTF-8 and UTF-16 are character encoding forms of the Unicode character set. That is, they are different ways of turning characters into bytes in the memory of a computer. Can you clarify what you mean by UTF-16 for symbol sets here? Do you mean "Unicode code points" or "private use characters" perhaps?

Proposed Response:

We support UTF-8 but we anticipates supporting UTF-16 for symbol sets and there is nothing in our spec that would prevent this. We could support a symbol set developed using unicode character values from a UTF-16 character set. Or a double byte set that was developed using private use characters.

scribe: AT could adapt to other symbol / character sets.

<LisaSeemanKest_> johns

John: they can be and thats the problem, we are not recommending one solution over the other. we dont say this vs. that, we are providing a translation mechanism.

Becky: I will give that one another shot.

Lisa: you will redo the responses in the issue?

Question:

If the spec (or its implementation) defines markup.

Our Answer: We do define attribute names and values as tokens that are human readable but we don't expect those to be localized. However we do have content simplification that does have alternative text descriptions.

I18N Response:

Names and values (when used in the way that you are defining here) should never be localized. We will probably make some observations about some of the attribute values, but your core assumption is fine.

When you say "alternative text descriptions", you mean that the simplification is used to replace existing natural language in the text, correct? Note that some natural language in markup documents (such as HTML) appears in attributes. Do you have a scheme for "simplifying" that text? Also, might the language and base direction of the text being simplified affect the interpretation of the symbols? There doesn't appear to be lang

uage or direction metadata associated with the symbol regime.

Proposed Response:

We do not currently propose any attribute values that contain natural language. All current proposed attribute values are static text. In the case of simplification, the assistive technology uses the attribute value to determine the level of simplification needed. The assistive technology is then responsible for performing any alternative text needed for simplification of the content and for adhering to the current localization

requirements. For symbol sets, we are relying on a mapping table of numbers to identify characters. The mapping table for a specific symbol set will account for any localization differences.

scribe: we shouldn't have mentioned alt-text. if there is text who is responsible for simplifying that?
... if you are translating from english to Italian. all those strings has to be localized.

Lisa: we should clarify we just have a token for importance and we are not going beyond that. these are issues for the next module. this is critical vs. less critical.

Becky: Question: If the spec (or its implementation) deals with names, addresses, time & date formats, etc

Our response: The data-purpose attribute does pattern after autocomplete attribute of HTML5 and author is responsible for any internationalization concerns.

I18N response: This section contains many potential issues for I18N, but these are mainly external to your spec (as you call out). Is there a way for you to not need to duplicate that spec's keywords, etc. and just import the fields by reference? You'll have to avoid breakage as we work with them or as their spec evolved :-).

John: there is a reason why we did that.

Proposed response:

We have opened a new issue, https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/138 <https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/issues/138>, to discuss the possibility of importing the fields by reference. Thank you for making us aware of the potential issues and evolution of the HTML spec in this area.

John: values from auto complete the reason why we copied to WCAG 2.1 we were concerned that some of the values are not supported by the browsers. and WHATWG may remove some of those values because they deal with reality. If they skinnied down auto complete which is why we copied them to WCAG 2.1 ("safe zone") We should not referencing HTML5 since we don't have control over it.
... 1.3.5 references tokens in section 7 "Purpose values" this was copied from HTML5. I would reference WCAG 2.1 section 7, but ideally we should have WCAG refer to our spec, but this is all hypothetical.
... auto complete can only be put on text input fields, not checkboxes etc.

Lisa: lets address Sharon's issue / email.

Sharon Issue 125 data- attributes / values and may have got on a tangent. I went through each of the documents and find things which didn't match the table. so an example we had 3 critical /high / low, but I found "normal" somewhere so I was looking for the table values and cross referenced in the modues.

scribe: we could try to do this on the list or in this call.

Roy: I will go through the table list.

Sharon: in documentation we reference high/normal. So I was just picking out inconsistencies.
... some of the thing that missing from the table, but it sounds like those should now be removed or changed to reflect the table values.

<scribe> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Weekly Meeting

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Present: CharlesL1 janina JF becky sharon Roy Lisa
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Found Scribe: CharlesL1
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Found Date: 23 Mar 2020
People with action items: 

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