ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force Telecon -- 03 Mar 2020

<sarah_higley> I hate webex so very, very much :(

<Jemma> Meeting agenda https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/March-3%2C-2020-Meeting

Future meeting agendas

<MarkMccarthy> MarkMccarthy: [group discussing travel plans / bans - this will be a topic for Thursdays meeting]

MK: Next meeting date is ??

Not next week due to CSUN

<Jemma> scribe: Zoe

But it's unsure if CSUN will actually be held

If CSUN does happen a meeting on the following Tuesday would be impractical

Next meeting would be the 24th in that case.

If CSUN doesn't happen we can have a meeting on the 17th.

SH: I'm not going

MK: I think we might just want to plan for next week :)

Jemma and I will discuss after this meeting

ARIA-AT

<Jemma> TopicL ARIA-AT update

ARIA-AT update

MK: It would be good to send out an update

<Jemma> https://w3c.github.io/aria-at/

Link to the prototype: https://w3c.github.io/aria-at/

If you explore this, you will see, a link for running test, link for previous tests

Please don't use these as definitive in any way

This is a pure proof of concept

<MarkMccarthy> s/

<Jemma> https://w3c.github.io/aria-at/review/menubar-editor.html

In terms of screen readers, for this year, we're gonna focus on the big ones: JAWS, NVDA, VoiceOver, Firefox, Chrome, Safari

ZB: Do we want to add Orca to that

MK: Depending on how this year goes, in 2021 we can expand to other screen readers and other browsers as well as other test cases

If we can get funding and the like we can discuss and look at automated AT testing APIs etc.

Right now this is really getting of the ground

We expect the first round of testing done by June 22nd

<Jemma> https://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/sessions/index.php/public/presentations/view/4545

<Jemma> CSUN presentation Matt mentioned.

SH: ???

<Jemma> https://w3c.github.io/aria-at/review/checkbox.html

MK: ????

SH: If ARIA slider works different than the HTML one

like, there's no real thing that works alike

Would that be a fail or a pass?

MK: We would do some research on how it should work native

like, on Windows or macOS

SH: So tests would be based on native elements?

MK: Unless the native tests are kind aflakey

APG 1.2 Release 1 Plan

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/APG-1.2-Release-1-Plan

MK: Status of tabbed carousel

Sarah you wanted to propose some changes

SH: yes

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1120

I can have it definitely by the next meeting

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1017

MK: Jon says the tests aren't correct yet

He says he has made all the changes

That were mentioned in the PR

Do we have reviews planned for this?

CM: We do, and there are people on the reviewers lists

MK: Zoë you're on this for the visual review and Curt you're up for the accessibility review

We did have a WIP label that has since been removed

Please review this in the coming week :)

In the combobox project we have..

we have twelve items in the next step and five in progress

The in progress stuff isn't related to anyone on the call I don't think

Maybe Sarah?

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/projects/7#column-1413592

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1331

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1331#issuecomment-594011492

*discussion about 1331 and 1336*

MK: Zoë you tested 1331

ZB: Yes

CM: Seems it works in Edge

Does that mean it doesn't work in Chrome/Firefox?

SH: No, Chrome and Firefox work with WHCM

But you have to set a flag

MK: We have a PR open for the first one about escape and grid

<sarah_higley> ahhh, I didn't check the example's high contrast in Chrome, just that HCM works there. Give me a sec, and I'll check

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1126

MK: We want to make sure that the comboboxes with popup lists work with VoiceOver

ZB: I can do that

MK: I'll send you an email when it's merged

Issue #1262

<sarah_higley> To make chrome work with Windows high contrast, go to chrome://flags/ and set Forced Colors to enabled

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1262

<Jemma> "Two other widgets that are also visually compact and enable users to make a single choice from a set of discrete choices are listbox and menu button. One feature that distinguishes combobox from both listbox and menu button is that the user's choice can be presented as a value in an editable field, which gives users the ability to select some or all of the value for copying to the clipboard. Comboboxes and menu buttons can be implemented so users

<Jemma> can explore the set of allowed choices without losing a previously made choice. ...

<Jemma> ... a menu button cannot be marked required, and while it has an accessible name, it does not have a value so is not suitable for conveying the user's choice in its collapsed state."

<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1262#issue-522488546

CM: Do we really want authors to use menu button pattern as a popup list

They have to dynamically change the label

Some AT don't announce that change

Perhaps they should. But they don't right now.

<sarah_higley> AT support for name changes: https://sarahmhigley.com/writing/playing-with-state/#name-changes

MK: One thing we haven't addressed in combobox. But it's sort of implicit that the value is the name

SH: I extensively tested this exact pattern

and some similar behavior patterns

Using a div worked better than a readonly input

MK: Wondering how this works in the AT API

SH: Give me a minute and I'll tell you

MK: Maybe some of this prose needs to be in either pattern but not both

Car, you think they are too similar?

CM: Yes!

That's my objection.

MK: Is this pressing?

CM: No, we can push this back.

MK: Can you make it 1.3 release 1

CM: Done
... For range, Jon had suggested combining the sections

<sarah_higley> I'm getting some weird results with inspecting the ValuePattern for all comboboxes, including those with an input. I'll double check the mapping for a <div role="combobox">value text</div> and get back :)

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/zcorpan/range-related-properties-2/aria-practices.html#range_related_properties_using_aria-valuemin_aria-valuemax_and_aria-valuenow

and adding valuenow to the max and min

Matt and I discussed combining the sections

<Matt_King> link to preview: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/zcorpan/range-related-properties-2/aria-practices.html#range_related_properties

<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1279

<Jemma> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/zcorpan/range-related-properties-2/aria-practices.html#range_related_properties_using_aria-valuemin_aria-valuemax_and_aria-valuenow

CM: One pending change

It says "All three things are required" but I think Simon pointed out the min and max shouldn't be required.

I assumed that would be put in

JG: Do we have anything on meter having to be focusable?

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