<scribe> scribe:shimizuyohta

We'll have meeting with Apple, Google, and Freedom Scientific in the coming 2 weeks. Teleconference of 1 hour.

Matt: Also we'll meet Google at CSUN on Thursday morning in person.
... We also sent inquiry to NVDA and Apple, but haven't gotten reply yet.
... We want to show some sample test plans and test result at least in the meeting.
... We shoud have at least 1 widget.

Discuss progress toward reviewing test plans and tests

Matt: Let's talk checkbox first.

<spectranaut> checkbox test plan: https://w3c.github.io/aria-at/review/checkbox.html

Matt: We can talk about inconsitent language over multiple tests after we discussed individual tests.
... In terms of incorporating feedback received today, I saw Michael made some PR.

Michael: I have one PR and marked as work in progress.
... Most of items you brought up were already included in the PR
... Issue 1 I agree and put in PR.

Matt: What was the source of that questions?

Michael: In the review script.
... Issue 2: Misspelling > Fixed in PR.
... Issue 3:Sounds like this is not urgent.

> discuss issue 3 later.

Michael: Issue 4:I feel I need time to think about this, hopefully get feedback from SR developers.

Matt: I assume developers have say in this issue. But the thing it is a problem users can discern wihtout going around exploring
... We can ask developers what they make of these issues, assuming this is a problem to be solved.

Michael: Issue 5. Browse mode typo > Fixed in PR
... Issue 7, removing element list, which I hesitate since I found cases that elements are not listed.
... This is where we need to discuss whether we draw the line with how many and which commands we test.

Matt: I agree that this is so rare. I feel the same about smart nav in JAWS.
... In this particularly case, elements lists are desinged to be redundunt.

Michael: I believe there's value in testing that, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
... I'm okay with removing it for now.

<spectranaut> this is a discussion of Matt's feedback and Michael's reponses: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/52#issuecomment-590706681

Matt: For the discussion with SR developers, we have assertions about group boundaries when navigating.

Consensus: Remove elements list for now, but we'll keep discussing.

Michael: Issue 8, incorrect titles. > Get that fixed.

Matt: Auto-generating the title would be good idea, since there would be less human error.

Valerie: I just opened the issue about test writing process, and could be related to that issue.

Michael: Issue 10, I agree, but not sure how to work that on.
... My next step is to remove elements lists.

Matt: SR users don't need to know about DOM.

Discuss review made from Yohta

Michael: I'm okay with leaving DOM for now.

Matt: Once these changes are merged, this plan is good to go.

<spectranaut> Yohta: mixed use of labels and names

<spectranaut> Yohta: is inconsistent

<spectranaut> Yohta: name is used in checkbox, label is used in menubar and combobox

<spectranaut> Matt: Lets use name. It's the norm in ARIA

<spectranaut> Michael: I agree

<spectranaut> Simon: Should we use "accessible name"?

<spectranaut> Matt: I think "name" is sufficient

<spectranaut> Michael: we need to figure out who will test after I get changes in

<spectranaut> Matt: I will test them

<spectranaut> Matt: We want one more person to test, so we can compare assertions for both. I will test for all three screen readers

<spectranaut> Matt: If we can run the tests tomorrow, then we can compare them on Friday. Running close!

<spectranaut> Yohta: I can do voiceover tomorrow

<spectranaut> Yohta: I'll try to get to JAWS

<spectranaut> Matt: Just for checkbox

Matt: Combobox is slighltly easier to get done than menubar.
... Looks like I do need to change everything for test title.

Valerie: I linked the new format to a new issue, so that you can use that one Matt. You don't need to write spreadsheet from scratch.

Matt: Let's go thourogh test writing

Test writing processes.

Valerie: I could start working on more streamlined steps of test.
... Do we wanna keep writing test in spreadsheet?

Matt: I found some value in spreadsheet, understanding the comprehensiveness of the test.

<spectranaut> test writing process issue for discussion: https://github.com/w3c/aria-at/issues/85

Matt: If you feel the same way.

Michael: I should try spreadsheet, since I haven't try.

Valerie: It sounds like authoirng test in spreadsheet is good for now. I'm hoping to find a way to make data validation easier.
... We can make this process easier by redesigning the format of spreadsheet.
... Which part do you want me to focus for next week?

And thanks for anyone who helped me making minutes while I was speaking.

<spectranaut> Matt_King: you got kicked off again? I also go kicked off

The minuts of end of the meeting was cut off due to BlueJeans tech issue.

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Present: Matt_King isaacdurazo Joe_Humbert zcorpan shimizuyohta Erika_Miguel michael_fairchild
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