<Matt_King> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/February-18%2C-2020-Meeting
<MarkMccarthy> scribe: MarkMccarthy
Matt_King: release sometime in April, not March
<Jemma> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19Uh6C_9SF3r6Hjf-h3MyWM-_R67LXRpC?usp=sharing
Matt_King: Jemma is working on some bugs to help with meeting the release plan
<Jemma> I appreciate the feedback on this implementation
Matt_King: other items for the
plan are on the agenda today
... any questions on priorities?
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1124
<carmacleod> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1124
Matt_King: jongund, can you
summarize to catch everyone up?
... or with any recent changes?
jongund: basically,the script
goes through guidelines and examples to see how many times
properties are referenced
... right now, looking at examples because i didn't want to
include some data-attrs and have that complexity too
jongund: looking at the preview link --
Matt_King: what were the data-attributes?
jongund: data-aria-roles,
data-aria-props, and adding the role or property you want
referenced
... could be simpler, that's what we have now
Matt_King: put on heading tags right?
jongund: yeah, need an ID and the headings have IDs
Matt_King: we should make sure we have IDs on the ones we want to reference then
jongund: in the report, it'll
append a little ) D to things it adds. it'll get included in
the report if it finds what it's looking for
... first table is no guidance; in the second table, there's at
least one guidance or example, third table is more than one
example. same is repeated for properties
Matt_King: in the cell for complimentary, for example, it'd be helpful to have the actual heading in the cell.
jongund: the numbering is generated right?
Matt_King: yeah that comes from respec, so you might not be able to pull that out
jongund: we could add something
related to the next-highest level heading or something as a
tooltip, to give some context
... if it's coming from a practices doc anyway
Matt_King: probably the contents of the heading is probably best we can do right now
jongund: yup
... that entire column is from practices; would it be better to
be called something else?
Matt_King: no it's okay
Jemma: guidance goes to design patterns
Matt_King: this is helpful for
planning, and we can use this same logic to enhance our index.
we have indicies of examples but not guidance.
... once we have this include everything we want, we can use
this same thing to index our guidance
... it'd be more useful to have the full section...but i don't
know how we'd do that
carmacleod: an appendix?
Matt_King: yeah, but i don't know how we'd get the section numbers
carmacleod: i don't think it'd -need- the section numbers, esp if there's a link
Jemma: this is great, i'll use
this a lot once we have it in spec!
... what is the implication of having the data-XXX information
for the -readers- rather than us as internal users?
jongund: just to document how these attrs etc. can be added, and we need that documentation somewhere. i did this assuming it'd be for the WG's use
Matt_King: yes
... might put into our editorial guidelines
... next step is, once we have this report and capability, we
can leverage it to make an index for the main document
... about roles, states, and properties
Jemma: got it. might be good to have a counter in the first part of the list - so, how many of each item there are for example (like 22 items with no guidance, etc.)
jongund: like an index in the beginning?
Jemma: yeah, might make it easier to understand
jongund: yeah, we could do that.
Jemma: this is great Jon!
carmacleod: i think this will be really useful.
jongund: it was a little more complex before, but I took some of that out to make it easier in the beginning
Matt_King: yeah, and this makes
it safe to merge too
... this script just goes in the scripts directory, right? so i
think I can just merge it
jongund: shouldn't be any conflicts
Matt_King: i'm probably just going to push some commits. have 4 minor editorial changes to make
<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1279
Matt_King: one thing though, we have a section abour progress, scroll bars, spinbuttons and a couple more sections for each, but not meters.
<carmacleod> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1279
Matt_King: i wonder if someone might make a similar section for meter?
carmacleod: i can't, have some work stuff that has to come first.
Matt_King: understandable.
... we could merge without, just seems like an oversight to
me
Jemma: i can do it if I have more info, since I did the meter example
Matt_King: sure, if you want to
draft it. essentially, if you look at section 8.6, you could
copy most of that and replace phrases where appropriate
... you'd have to do inline example code though
... yeah, literally can be copied as long as it's made relevant
to meters.
Jemma: okay
Matt_King: and needs to be
alphabetical, so it'd come before progressbar and after
valuetext
... there's a branch here you can use, too. no worries
Jemma: got it
Matt_King: any other comments?
I'd like folx to read this in the coming week. i'll work w/ you
on final edits Jemma. I'd like to merge this next week if
possible.
... if there's common questions we haven't answered; issues
authors run into commonly; other things that aren't addressed
well or at all; all good to know.
... jongund, have you read that yet?
jongund: looking at it now
Matt_King: you're probably someone who's very in touch with people who stumble
jongund: i stumble! [laughs]
[group laughter]
carmacleod: your resiliance is impressive, Jon! :)
<carmacleod> github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1120
Matt_King: how are we doing? oh wait - we can't talk about. Sarah was going to push some changes and it doesn't seem she has
carmacleod: right, she hasn't. but Jon pushed the stop sign cursor change. Dunno if Sarah saw that and if it helped
jongund: biggest problem is
probably that there's no stop button on most carousels, people
haven't seen that before
... so the "why does this feel wrong" question is just because
people haven't seen this before
Matt_King: right, it only used to be that people could see it when tabbing before, which isn't good
jongund: so basically now, when
you move the mouse over a slide it changes into a "do not
enter" sign (a red circle with a white horizontal bar), so
people can see something is going on
... we could make a more direct affordance, but that might be
wordier
... have to be careful with cursor SVGs because they're still
the mouse pointer after all
ZoeBijl: i'd like to suggest a different icon - that one also indicates no action available
jongund: it only shows when you're on the actual image, not the controls or links.
ZoeBijl: okay
carmacleod: someone asked for an example without autorotation at all
jongund: we have
Matt_King: yeah, we have but haven't prioritized it. we -could- do it
jongund: the code is there, add "pause" to the URL and the script will see it and start the carousel paused
Matt_King: well they're talking about no rotation, period
jongund: ah ok
carmacleod: just wanted to point
it out
... i finished the a11y review, the live region stuff -- if
we're going to keep it and want the APG to provide robust
examples, we need to talk to the AT devs to fix a few
things
... on some pairings, it doesn't feel robust
Matt_King: this is a good example for the ARIA-AT project
carmacleod: sorry for it, but it
doesn't feel right
... if we use the tab labels instead, the carousel author could
provide some nice titles
... reuse alt text, link text, or nice lovely text they'd
prefer. it'd be more consistent
Matt_King: after we merge this,
we'll consider this a bells-and-whistles carousel. we'll go
back to basics after and consider taking out role descs,
etc.
... still have an issue where, if it's a rotating type
carousel, how does a screenreader user scan through it
quickly...
carmacleod: right arrow?
Matt_King: well, the idea you can glance through it - which is different from a normal tabbed interface.
jongund: user getting info about the slides w/o having to go through hoops
Matt_King: right
carmacleod: well this doesn't do this, until user navs through tablist
Matt_King: yeah, a little work.
but not a LOT
... don't need to nav into slide, read, go back to nav, to next
slide, etc.
carmacleod: well, author could put that info in the tab label
Matt_King: but kind of against our guidance for labels
carmacleod: aria-labelledby link text/alt text, something else?
Matt_King: anyway - at least one version of this carousel can give a good live region test for ARIA-AT
carmacleod: ok - sorry for bringing it up but I had to
Matt_King: well aria-details isn't good for this. -describedby, maybe.
Jemma: any thoughts Bryan?
Bryan: i've had to work on a lot
of carousels. the one that rotates w/o controls is concerning.
as far as roles go, i know live regions don't work reliably but
it's useful when navigating in this case
... one thing to keep in mind is carousel slides can contain
-anything-
... but if the live region is on the slide itself, some things
may or may not be announced.
... sometimes i'll put the content in a hidden offscreen span,
and that can cover a lot of scenarios
... but the live region isn't wholly important, user can still
get the info
Matt_King: in general, I -really- hope people wouldn't use a carousel for forms etc. [laughs]
Bryan: well like wizards, for instance
Matt_King: ahh yes, but that
could be a tab interface
... that's a situation where, if it was in a wizard, I'd think
it's a different use case. a live region there might not be
helpful since a user has to go through info anyway
Bryan: well for what step you're on
Matt_King: ah okok yes
... maybe we have a request in backlog related to wizards,
wonder if we can take this basic carousel and use it for
that
... hmm, something to consider
... so still waiting on Sarah
carmacleod: we'll probably need to ask her again, just in case Jon's fixes help her
<carmacleod> scribe: carmacleod
https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/projects/7#card-28909395
Matt_King: fix for 1332 is good
to go
... I added 1334 - need help with this one - I started it
... Jon, can you add the javascript so that the Escape key
behaves the same way as the other comboboxes?
<Jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1334
Matt_King: i.e. if the grid is displayed, it closes the grid; if grid is not displayed, then esc clears the text field
jongund: ok
rssagent, make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/gudiance/guidance/ Succeeded: s/in section 8.4/sections for each/ Succeeded: s/oaky/okay/ Succeeded: s/button/button on most carousels/ Succeeded: s/elsee/else/ Present: Matt_King MarkMccarthy carmacleod CurtBellew jongund Jemma ZoeBijl BryanGaraventa Regrets: EvanYamanishi SarahHigley JamesNurthen Found Scribe: MarkMccarthy Inferring ScribeNick: MarkMccarthy Found Scribe: carmacleod Inferring ScribeNick: carmacleod Scribes: MarkMccarthy, carmacleod ScribeNicks: MarkMccarthy, carmacleod WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]