<gpellegrino> scribe+

<gpellegrino> Avneesh: anything pending from last week?

<Avneesh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/wiki/Definitions-and-rationales-for-Accessibility-Metadata

<gpellegrino> Madeline: George updated the "Accessibility Conformance"

<gpellegrino> Avneesh: we decided to use URL instead of URI

<gpellegrino> George: I started with a generic description, and then I mentioned EPUB

<gpellegrino> Avneesh: fine for me

<gpellegrino> Madeleine: I'm fixing URI in URL

<gpellegrino> Madeleine: "Rationale: Discovery metadata enables publications to have their accessibility exposed regardless of the overall accessibility of the publication. A publication optimized for a particular group, such as an audio book, would not meet WCAG 2.0, but it would be fully accessible to many people. The conformance metadata details the accessibility of the publication, which allows end users and educators to evaluate the suitab

<gpellegrino> ility of the publication for individuals."

<gpellegrino> George: are we ok with that?

<gpellegrino> Avneesh: it can be improved, but I think it is ok for now

<gpellegrino> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/wiki/Definitions-and-rationales-for-Accessibility-Metadata

<Avneesh> https://github.com/w3c/publ-a11y/wiki/Definitions-and-rationales-for-Accessibility-Metadata

<gpellegrino> Madeleine: we have to talk about "Inaccessible" and "All Accessibility Metadata"

<gpellegrino> Avneesh: can we say that something is inaccessible?

<gpellegrino> ... it is very difficult to say that it is inaccessible for everyone

<gpellegrino> Madeleine: I think ONIX says something about images of text

<gpellegrino> ... it is true that for people looking for accessible books, some can be very inaccessible

<gpellegrino> tzviya: I think "inaccessible" doesn't convey any information

<gpellegrino> Madeleine: I think people who understand about accessibile, understands what "inaccessible" means

<gpellegrino> Bill_Kasdorf: I think it can be very misused

<gpellegrino> laudrain: I think the rationale is "significan features" are missing

<gpellegrino> ... it is what ONIX says

<gpellegrino> CharlesL: for me it needs to be qualified

<gpellegrino> ... ONIX meaning is vision-focused (so for blind users)

scribe+

Tzviya: I don't think this adds anything, and as Bill says there is potential for missuse.

Bill: I agree Tzviya, we want publishers to use this they are creating this and I can imagine that a publisher will resist marketing materials so as long as it is accessible to some people they won't use it.

NK: distinction between inaccessible and it missing some accessibility features, it won't be understood by those that just stumbled across it. So I feel it could be missunderstood.

MR: ONIX comes out of trade community, so I would have thought that they would be comfortable with this.

Avneesh: we would need equivalent in Schema and MARC. If someone wants to put it in to ONIX then they can do that but maybe we shouldn't include it.

Luc: a11y features metadata or say inaccessible.

MR: having that present then they wouldn't have to include the a11y metadata?

<George> gpellegrino: q+

Luc: if it says its inaccessible, maybe there is an acceptation for this book, company is too small, or it completely changes (comic book no text) only description of images of text, there may be exceptions, asked to publishers refer to this book as inaccessible and why they could make it this way. I am just wondering.

Gregorio: if we check a book comic book and we know it not accessible for us we tell the end user and we know its not accessible to blind people.

<gpellegrino> right username now :)

Avneesh: maybe like Charles said we need to qualify this.

Naomi: if we have this binary then we need to figure out where that line is. what if I have an EPUB with video without captions would that make it inaccessible do we require WCAG-AA
... , we have all ways to say this accessModes, hazards. What if you miss one thing is it now inaccessible?

Avneesh: optimized publication it does not meet WCAG but is very accessible to a certain group eg. audio book

Naomi: if we start qualifying this flag it becomes difficult to manage

Madeleine: we are not here to decided to add more metadata, just ONIX has this right now.

Naomi: I agree

George: I agree with this and when we talk to folks from EU we may add it back depending on what they want. We do have optiomized publications and Acessmode Visual.

Tzviya: it is in our best interest not to include this and there is no way we would get this into schema.org

Gregorio: we dont' have a way that something is missing.

MR: accessMode tells us if there are images in the book (ie. Visual)

Luc: default won't be inaccessible anymore, by exception that one may be inaccessible.

<gpellegrino> maybe as an issue

Avneesh: we could keep it as a candidate (below the document) getting it implemented then we need to tighten the definition.

George: is this a binary like WCAG, if you meet A then its accessible then if you don't meet A then it is inaccessible. without getting it into schema.org

MR: maybe, this document doesn't say you can't add this metadata, like LIA wants a way to say that something is inaccessible, we are not recommending to the larger community that they should start using it.

Avneesh: lets drop it for now, but maybe in the EU wants to include it we can review this.

Bill: we are going to delte this from this document.

Avneesh: Yes

<Naomi> +1

MR: I will delete this from the wikki

Gregorio: I will remove it from the ONIX / Schema.org techniques.

MR: All Accessibility Metadata
... • Definition: It is a pointer to show the listing of all the accessibility metadata of the publication. It can be a hyperlink to another page or can be listed in HTML summary/details element. It should include metadata for accessibilityFeature, accessibilityHazard, accessMode, accessModeSufficient and all the accessibility metadata and conformance metadata listed above.

• Rationale: A complete list of accessibility metadata is important for advance users who would like to know presence of specific accessibility features in the publication. This listing is also important for verification of the user friendly interpretation of the accessibility metadata.

…, may want to do a pass to harmonize capitalization etc.

scribe: , by user-friendly this page right here, how can we say that more clearly?

George: by using (self reference)

MR: a11y metadata provided on (this page)

Avneesh: principles?

MR: provided according to this document.

George: User experience guide?

MR: Rationale: A complete list of accessibility metadata is important for advanced users who would like to know about the presence of specific accessibility features in the publication. This listing is also important for verification of the interpretation of the accessibility metadata provided according to this user experience guide.

Luc: wondering, related to A11Y Summary?

MR: A11Y Summary is a Human readable, this provides that but this is also including a data-dump of all the accessibility metadata.

Luc: I don't understand what it contains Schema, ONIX, ?
... , is this on some website?

Avneesh: Vital Source was doing this and was dumping all the metadata into their web page.
... , it could be something extracted from the ACE report.
... yes that could true

Luc: if we don't go down the line on how this should be coded it may not be useful to websites, or instead for advance users will they be able to read JSON LD / schema.org codes?

Avneesh: first page is user friendly, this is a technical page for more details
... , we can bring this example into this document.

Luc: if I have a link to the metadata would be interesting.

George: conformsTo in spec the certifiedBy if you have conformsTo then this is a required field.

Avneesh: if someone is claiming WCAG-AA then we need to know who is saying that.

Charles: Can you have the opposite, have a certifiedBy without conformsTo.

Avneesh: I don't remember but may need to look at that closer next time we review the the specification.

Gregorio: move the definition rationals from wiki to Principals document.

Avneesh: issue - schema.org techniques document it includes EPUB techniques we should rename this document to be more inline with whats in the EPUB.

Google Search Topic:

Luc: knowledge KB from Google, from all websites they are curating. they are not getting this from to many different places, they do have contracts from aggregators, from publishers, they get the onix feeds from publishers/aggregators one message, they don't have to reconcile from different sources, they want to add the a11y metadata, all the onix messages, they may not use everything right now, but they store all, they could use i

t in the future. When they build their Knowledge graph they are able to present from any title from any book a Knowledge card on right side with title / author with all the metadata, they have a module which links to where you can buy the book from resellers in the future if there is enough a11y metadata they could have a link to this data.

scribe: , also said they will use the markup in the HTML page of the resellers not to feed the database but for usage when they crawl webpages Scripted HTML JSON but if they find HTML markup with schema.org if they find a11y metadata they may use it but in any case that would be a second thought because the KB is from the ONIX feeds.

Avneesh: NLP search on a11y metadata, if there is schema.org metadata it would take the crawlers to pull it up from the crawlers. better approach backdoor, publishers, aggregators, retailers if the ONIX metadata, these entities must have a channel with Google.

MR: do we know if they are putting this a11y metadata in their ONIX feeds?

Luc: We are starting to yes. soon as there is no issues in ACE then we convert from EPUB metadata to ONIX. In production in february.

Tyziya: Google may be the largest but there is more processors of schema.org than Google. we need to be cautious that we are metadata for google or for the world at whole.
... , want retailers to use this then we should continue to write our schema.org metadata and not just focus on ONIX.

Gregorio: we do produce ONIX a11y metadata, books in print catalog we do send Google ONIX a11y metadata right now.

<Avneesh> next george

George: request for search engines Google/Apple/Amazon. we are not just looking at Google
... mention that they also use MARC and libraries, we are also starting to explore. is there a master list of Libraries.

Luc: ONIX ebook distributions is done in ONIX for books we push everywhere for retailers for ONIX. very important.

George: is Pearson Wiley, for Higher education

Tzviya: its much harder for us to change ONIX metadata

George: I know there are tools to go from ONIX to MARC

Charles: ONIX metadata 2.1 doesn't really have a11y metadata but maybe this will change here in the US since Amazon will require 3.0 by the end of this year.

Tzyia, we publish ONIX 3 for a few years but no one takes it.

<Avneesh> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTBWK6YwcDNYQTjE5dodNsMaIqRDUWu9SLsNwiaAZIrGn3BKa7iVlnTM6Nw5aU_qFKMUBcThEXlQAds/pubhtml

Avneesh: IFLA (DAISY has representation) through Dependra to harmonize schema.org / ONIX / MARC (International Federation of Library Associations)
... , mainly libraries relying on MARC and they are starting this crosswalk, this work started from this.
... I will be speaking at this group in the future.

George: LPD (Library Persons with Disabilities) if they will get into MARC that is great
... , I need to get into this, IMLS work, and even in the Canadian A11Y summit.

Madeline, I got this link from 2 different groups, it drew from the work I started but it misinterpreted some of it.

Avneesh: when we can have our next meeting?
... , next call on Feb 14

Charles: I won't be able to make that call.

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