<jeanne> chair: Shawn, jeanne
<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/#clear-words
<Lauriat> Scribe: Lauriat
<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/94845/Silver-ED-21-01-2020/
<janina> scribe: janina
js: Worked on survey with Kim,
please respond to it.
... Will, of course, post survey to the email list
<CharlesHall> this page is restricted from me
js: Also got input on the survey
from Alastair; specifically to ask whether each question ready
(or not) for wide review feedback
... Added intro, and pointer to rawgit
... As of this morning rawgit is up to date
sl: Q about granularity of
questions ... Thought we were taking a less granular view for
now
... Mainly because we haven't sufficiently edited to be
questioning on specifics in the details
js: Would cut down on the
questions; would take out 2?
... Maybe 3
... Can do post call today
... Will take all guidelines ready for review into one
question
<Zakim> Lauriat, you wanted to ask about granularity of questions.
ch: Purpose?
js: Primarily for AGWG; but also for us
ch: Can't access page
js: Hmm, thought it was world readable
makato: Same problem, can't access
sl: I can
<JF> I'm in
js: Asks people who are CG to check access
ch: Thought I wasn't CG only any longer
js: May be your login?
sl: But also Makato
js: OK ...
... Settings appear correct, will have to investigate
further
... Would like to review guidelines questions here to see
whether this is what we want to survey
... Are we guiding people toward providing the kind of feedback
we need?
... Guideline A illustrates this aspect; guideline B that
aspect; etc.
... But, if we can't see it ...
... It is due to be forwarded
sl: Asks for updates since last week
js: Particularly interested in Alt-Text update
<Makoto> Alt-Text Guidance - Gaps Analysis by Todd https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TgOrTLdxBf_E_mDpoTYJOWn4-lfH_m1DdT8nc2u9PTM/edit?usp=sharing
Makato: Have an update ...
<KimD> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TgOrTLdxBf_E_mDpoTYJOWn4-lfH_m1DdT8nc2u9PTM/edit?usp=sharing
<Makoto> Template for Gap Analysis on SC 1.1.1 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13PJkFrDHRKCftuyfBKisvRcqHCGGBlmL6B68lr-nzWs/edit?ts=5e1de4ba#gid=0
Makato: There are 3 of us doing a
gap analysis on sufficient techniques; there are 27
techniques
... Expect all results via spread sheet next Tuesday on this
call
js: Are some done that you can
point to and prioritize? So I can load html
... Looking for info that can go into the Explainer
<Makoto> Google doc on ALT text: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xI6ooDVxvNelVNJDSvbTJCvrJh92Df9wLXGyWs5f2-w/edit#
js: Could take techniques that are finished? Any?
Makato: Not yet
js: Would like to see some of
this in FPWD; even if not all; some would be sufficient
... Even a few
Makato: OK
js: Turning to clear words; We met Monday and finished draft #1
<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/explainers/ClearWords.html
js: Interjection: MC says survey
fixed; please check
... There are things to note under the Design Tab
<Makoto> I can see the survey now. Thanks!
js: Want to use it as an example
of how we might cross reference other guidelines
... Prior page we had example of cross reference other
guideline; this one of how to cross reference another
method
... All of what you need to write a modal
ch: Cross ref definitely an advantage; but we should be cautious of how it's organized to avoid redundancy or implied ownership
<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask where the word "Method" appears on the template
ch: The whole thing should not be restated, should be an opportunity to link back and forth
js: Agreed and how we will do it
ch: Meanwhile, perhaps a different heading, e.g. Also Apply
jf: My only concern so far is
that we have methods everywhere. Are we pulling them all
together somewhere?
... Would love to see a master list
js: Thanks for the question;
meant to discuss this ...
... So my thought is an accordian drop down to create a
complete list. Is that tneable?
<kirkwood> That sounds good
sl: This suggests we need more
design help.
... Also need usability testing before we setlle on an
approach
... Also have some ideas, but don't want to make it about what
helps me
jf: +1
<kirkwood> +1
jf: Across the top a tab that
says All Methods -- maybe the final tab
... Would help cross referencing
sl: Also value to see whether we can pare down
ch: Reminds we don't wanted them stated in two places
sl: yes, but we need serious design help to get this right
jf: Experienced users will want the quick access approach
js: Which is my reason for Editor's Draft level vs. Explainer
<AndyS> Consider: Training wheels level and an expert level
js: OK, I'm off the hook--though may try if time permits
ch: Would like to see explanatory statements
js: Where?
ch: In the short term, until we have Glossary perhaps parenthetical to the labels?
js: That would add more
text
... Perhaps the intro?
... Charles, please think about and let's return to the topic
in email
ch: Right now the guideline is
repeated on every tab, but no explanation of what the tab
means
... Analagous to the whlo page needing an H1
<kirkwood> only suggestion is to call this “Clear Language Guidance”
js: Yes, forgot. Sorry!
<kirkwood> rather than just “Clear Language”
<Lauriat> Lauriat: Really, the "Clear Language" box should go above all of the tabs, rather than repeated in each one.
js: Returning to clear words -- We wrote the guideline!
<jeanne> Use clear language that readers easily understand.
js: I liked the process of
writing the guideline last
... Made it easier to capture the essence of all that we had
talked about
sl: Wondering about the readers; applies in blocks of text but also in labels and elsewhere
<kirkwood> +1 to Shaen
<kirkwood> Shawn
js: Target is blocks of text
sl: Would be good for the gl to specify that
jk: Should cover all lang on page and in interactions
<kirkwood> +1 but it also helps for translation
<Lauriat> Janina: This came up in COGA, it should be clear who benefits from this.
<Lauriat> +1 to kirkwood
<Makoto> +1 to kirkwood
jk: Also wonder about
"easily"
... How do I measure ease?
ch: "easily" suggests a degree, so it's aa good question how achieved
js: We talked about that, there's
no particular point that needs to be found
... It's a way to improve what you have, not a measure of a
goal
jk: Don't disagree, but is at odds with gl as written
jf: Agrees. How do we know we achieved? How do we know?
<kirkwood> Often quoted in legal “The goal is to create a clear and concise document that is easily understood.” -Better legal Writing-American Bar Association
js: That's the rubric -- we provide three approaches
<JF> +1 to Janina
jk: Even American Bar hasdealt with this and has legal lang guidance
<CharlesHall> comparative would not apply for a new creation. easier than what?
<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/94845/Silver-ED-21-01-2020/
ch: Ah, works now!
... Sees numbers behind some questions?
sl: Also find it confusing; would prefer extra numbers removed
js: Also, some of these questions could be in the FPWD as what we're seeking responses on
kd: Notes missing qualifier in #20 ...
js: Thanks! Please refresh!
sl: Requests closer look at survey and responses in email.
<jeanne> Jeanne: Updates to the Editor's Draft
<jeanne> ... https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/
<jeanne> ... Updates to Headings -- mostly changing Section Headings to Headings
<jeanne> ... Fixed broken links
<jeanne> ... Added breadcrumbs to Methods
<jeanne> ... updates to Clear Language
<jeanne> jeanne: Still to do...
<jeanne> ... Changing the name of the Visual Contrast Algorithm (with Andy's permission)
<jeanne> .. writing another method for CLear Language using code samples from Adrian Roselli
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/27/27 techniques/ Present: jeanne janina JF KimD Lauriat Makoto CharlesHall AndyS kirkwood Regrets: Bruce Chuck Found Scribe: Lauriat Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Scribes: Lauriat, janina WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]