Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

24 Jan 2020


Brent, Daniel, Eric, Estella, Helen, Kevin, Laura, Lewis, Mark, Shadi, Shawn, Howard


<shawn> scribe: Daniel

<scribe> scribe: Daniel

<shawn> scribenick:dmontalvo

Eval Videos

<shawn> survey results https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/eval-vids-5/results

Shadi: Thanks to all who participated in the survey. Very helpful feedback.

Assistive Technology Icons

Shadi: These icons appear for 2-3 seconds in video #4 where it says: "...You need to know about assistive technology"
... We do want to be comfortable with these icons but we are not planning to use them anywhere else, so we need to balance
... We could have all 6 or end up with maybe 4 or 3. The question is how many of these we can end up with today.
... I suggest we choose those icons that we are more comfortable with rather than starting another cycle of revision.
... We see a device that looks keyboardish but it doesn't have all the expected keys. We wanted to display a wireless keyboard and a somehow special keyboard to communicate assistive devices
... Should we have standard keys? Do we want to keep or remove the wireless signals?

Kevin: Understand the argument but it might be very complicated to understand. People might not recognize it as a keyboard immediately.

<Helen> +q

<markpalmer> I think either are recognisable as a keyboard so +0

Helen: I think it is fine. The two proposals are good.

<shawn> +0 mildly think it's better to have something that looks plenty different. +1 for not doing another round of editing these icons, unless really important

Laura: I think we should have just a standard keyboard and remove the chord.

<yatil> +0 not feeling strongly

<Howard> would lean towards wireless

<Lewis> +0.5 toward different keyboard

<eoncins> +1 standard keyboard if we mean endusers because there are other types of professional keyboards velotype palantype, stenotype...

Howard: I like the icon of the specialized keyboard

<Helen> +1 to the wifi keyboard "specialised"

<Brent> +1 to specialized

<yatil> +.25 to the special one

<Howard> still go with the specialized

Eric: Having standard keyboard doesn't say Assistive Technology to me. Maybe having the specialized keyboard but removing the wifi and bluetooth signals

Shawn: Maybe we can decide not toinclude this one since we do not seem to agree on its details.

Shadi: Not strong feelings but leaning to the special keyboard without the wifi signal
... Anybody objecting to that?
... For now we have deided to have the specialized keyboard without the wifi signals
... Previously in some iteration we had the AA. These were overlapping but using different colors. Now they overlap but they don't use different colors.

<Helen> -1

<yatil> -1

<Lewis> +0

<Howard> -1

<Laura> -1

<eoncins> -1

<kevin> -1

<Brent> +0

<shawn> -1 but super mild

Shadi: So +1 for this icon as is or -1 to get back to the AAs not touching each other

<krisannekinney> -1

<markpalmer> -1. Overlapping is odd.

Eric: I think they should not overlap, no problem if they touch like in the butttom

<Helen> +1 to the letters next to each other

Shadi: Proposal, keep the icon, adjust the styles, they are going to be next to each other but not overlapping like they are now.

Shawn: If we are tweaking them, I would like the smaller one even smaller, low priority.

Shadi: I add that suggestion to the above proposal

<kevin> +1 to proposal

<shawn> +1 to that proposal

<eoncins> +1

<Laura> +1

<Brent> +1 to proposal

<Helen> +1 to the proposal

<Lewis> +1

<yatil> +1 to proposal, +0 to size change (needs to be readable)

<Howard> +1

Shadi: We decide to back up the above proposals.
... It seems we have six icons, two of them needing minor adjustments
... We can move ahead with the top five icons, dropping the volume control, or maybe somebody feels the volume control needs to be there.
... I think keeping the keyboard is good because it represents physical disabilities.

<Howard> either way is fine with me too - 5 or 6

Kevin: I am happy, I would leave this to you as the editor.

Brent: I would keep the braille border as is. IF we keep the volume control I am fine with either way we decide to keep it.

<yatil> +0, personally would leave the volume control in, but not feeling strong at all.

Shadi: I will repeat the proposal. The closed captions is going to get thinner borders. The text resize, the border is going to stay as is, the letter will not overlap, and the small A will be even smaller
... The braille icon is not going to change
... The keyboard, we will remove the wireless signals
... The text telephone is not going to change
... and the volume control is going to be dropped, since we already have five icons which I think is enough.

Any opinions on this as this will be the final proposal?

<kevin> +1 to all except border on Braille/keyboard - but happy with consensus

<Laura> +1

<Howard> +1

<yatil> +1

<krisannekinney> +1

<Helen> +1 to the proposal

<eoncins> +1

Kevin: The issue is the weight in the braille and keyboard I would like them to be more aligned. Happy with consensus anyway.

<markpalmer> No issues

<Brent> No issues with thicker keyboard outline

<krisannekinney> no issues with that

<yatil> no issues

<Howard> no issues

Video #4

Shadi: Most people have supported changes. There are still a couple of things, though.
... We have trouble with the starting sequence where the column is. The column now does not grow, it gets filled and then disappear.Some people seems not to be comfortable with this.

KrisAnne: I can't think of anything better. Maybe somebody has ideas, I would love to hear the.

Brent: Maybe we need to fix the arrows when they are dissolving but I also cannot come up with a better way to represent this.

Stella: I agree with KrisAnne. Last week I made the proposal of a charging battery, relating to the different levels.

<Helen> +q

<eoncins> http://www.handandbeak.com/2019/07/vector-battery-charger/battery-charging-icon-charger-vector-illustration-image/

Helen: When the arrows at the top disappears, maybe replace it with 100% indicating you have met the requirements
... Some people like words rather than pictures.

<shawn> -1 to adding 100% (not worth the complication and also few sites get there!)

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say agree with KrisAnne that this not great, but no better idea. So assuming we stay with this, MILD comment that I envisioned thick line and arrow inside the

Shawn: Agree with KrisAnne, I would also like to have a very thick arrow inside the column instead of outside

<yatil> -1 to WCAG on top of column as it does look as if you cannot reach WCAG.

<kevin> +1 to idea of block arrow

<yatil> -1

<yatil> -q

Shawn: If we add more to it we might even have negativereactions from people that feel they already know about the topi.

<Helen> +q

Brent: I don't want to have the connotation that you are done once you reach 100%, technology changes, things happen. I'd better convey that you be as accessible as you can be.
... I am fine with wherever the arrow is.

Helen: Maybe the whole graph portrays the idea that you can reach 100% and you are all set and this is what people does not like.

<shawn> reminder -- this is not about the process, it's about conformance evaluation

Kevin: Is the arrow going to WCAG suggesting that WCAG is your target? Maybe the arrow could make the column an arrow and that would represent the progress

<shawn> +1 for leaving WCAG in the bar, and making big arrow in the colum. and it can just fade underneath WCAG

Shawn: The top of the green bar could be an arrow top instead of being flat

<yatil> arrow top aka triangle

Shadi: What I am hearing is maybe small tweaks can be done to this animation.

<Helen> +1 keep the spaceship no matter what

Shadi: The spaceship seems to be very complex for some and not match with the narration.

Shawn: I was visually processing all this extra information and that caught my attention, so I was not really hearing what the text is saying. I think it is distracting. If everyone loves it, I am fine with it.
... What we have before I think is better.

<markpalmer> +1 to spaceship in general but similar to Reddit logo

<eoncins> +1 to keep it

<Brent> +1 to current. I wasn't distracted.

Eric: I like it because it is good and funny.

<kevin> +1 to Eric

<eoncins> +1 to Eric also

<Lewis> +1 to Eric

<Laura> +1 to Eric

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say back to what eric orginally suggested - spaceship appears on the right and the items go into it like on a conveyor belt

Shawn: I wonder if we can do what Eric suggested before, having the spaceship appear from the right and then having the four or five things in.

KrisAnne: Is there anything we can put in the rocket ship to label it so that people don't find it so distracting?

<shawn> [ looks like several +1s to latest versio and no other concerns, so I suggest we move on ]

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say like the abstraction

Eric: The abstraction was good. The video is just decoration for the spoken text, these is why we don't have audio description. For me this is not very much a concern.

Shadi: My personal takeaway is that this is too much movement and distraction for some people, but still I hear a majority that likes it. I suggest to move forward with this animation as is
... Depending on the voice narration we can delay the medal scene a couple of seconds.
... Where it talks about how WCAG-EM report tools helps with the methodology... previously there was a pen, we asked for it to be more computerized but still is not quite there. We are going to ask them to fix that to actually make it more like a web form inside the computer screen or something

<yatil> +0 on the paper issue, but I didn’t find it bad before.

Shadi: Our very end animation we have these five disability icons in a semicircle around the screen. We reduced the animation a bit more. They still kind of fly out... there is a bit going on here. For some people this might be distracting
... But in the past I heard that most people liked that. I am leaning to leave it as is but I want to give one more opportunity to the group.

<yatil> +1 to keep icon animation as is

<Brent> +1 as is

<eoncins> +1

<Laura> +1

<Lewis> +1

Shadi: There will be some fixes for the video but for the most part I think the video is accepted as is.

<krisannekinney> +1

<Laura> +1

<shawn> +1 to opening scene with the arrow inside as kevin drafted (maybe sharper point)

Shadi: Back to the very first scene starts of as a green color, instead of having an arrow besides the column, we have the column itself as a roof column, pointing below to the WCAG letters. How do people feel about this?

<Brent> +1

<Lewis> +1

<eoncins> +1

<Helen> Will the white WCAG have a black outline?

<yatil> +.25 OK

<eoncins> Sorry I have to leave for a meeting.

<shawn> +1 to improving contrast of white WCAG on gray bar

Shadi: Should we give it a black border?

<kevin> +1 to improve contrast

Shawn: As long as we take care of contrast, I don't mind how we do that.

<Howard> +1 to improve contrast

End plate

<yatil> +1 Done

Shadi: Endplate -- We really need to take a decision. VoiceOver has been recorded, no changes can be done to that anymore.
... We decided to have the URL after the resource title.

Shawn: I would make sure that in the animation the words appear as they are being said by the narrator
... Start typing the title letters when the title is said and the URL letters when the URL is said.

Shadi: Anybody not approving this endplate?

Video #5

Shadi: Last week we had a discussion to get feedback on the new script for video #5. We have now a far improved script matching with what we talked about last week.
... it's based on what we discussed last week
... I have put more description to help you visualized what is going to be like.
... The person with which I am working is going to be on vacation for the first three weeks of February.
... We can do two things:
... 1. Review it quickly until Tuesday, remembering that this would be our last chance
... 2. Take our time to review this and wait until the person is back again (end of February)

Brent: Sharron and I recommend to do it before Tuesday because of what Shadi explained and also because we will have many things during February.

Shadi: There is also this Authoring Tools survey open till Friday 31st.

Eric: I certainly can make the effort.

<shawn> +1 for trying for Tuesday

<Laura> +1

<markpalmer> +1

<kevin> +1 to try for Tuesday

+1 to making the effort

<krisannekinney> +1 to making the effort

Shadi: This needs to be a very thorough review. The more information you give me, the more I can assess how strong you feel about it and how we can together solve the issue.

Brent: We can put the survey today until Tuesday and send reminder on Monday.

Authoring Tools Report Tool

Shadi: We are going to be discussing the survey Hidde has prepared for the Authoring Tools.
... We were starting to develop the list of Authoring Tools so that people could search for accessible authoring tools. We had trouble collecting the information.
... We put the 8 principles that ATAG provides and you can go through them.
... First screen is an overview. Next screens have the first principle with guidelines and SCs.
... It gives you the option to record certain things and to add more information.
... At the end you should get the result (a rendered report that you can download as HTML or JSON)
... There are 2 questions on the survey. 1, a squirrel review of the requirements analysis
... 2. an eagle review of the tool itself

Brent: We wanted to provide a prototype so that you can have an idea of what is to come.
... The survey is up in W4TW. We need you to complete the survey on video 5 first but you can complete this one today if you have time.


Brent: Denis has been working on this project together with three other people. We talked about it during F2F meetings. They are going to be presenting at CSUN the rough draft of what they have been working on.
... They want EOWG to have a look at three of these documents. It will be an approval to put a first draft and the URL we use would be the final URL they will be using when publishing\
... The documents that they want to have posted are

<Brent> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/ARRM_Project_-_Accessibility_Roles_and_Responsibilities_Mapping#CSUN_2020_Planning

Brent: Week of 10-14 February
... We would like to release the survey next week, run it through EOWG, work on the changes and then have Shawn and Eric working to set up the systems to post them to the URLs
... These are just draft documents for CSUN presentation
... Any comments?

Work for this Week

Brent: Current open survey for the Authoring Tools Report List
... We will be launching today the survey about video 5
... When the ARRM survey comes out we will be sending an email with information about it.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Found Date: 24 Jan 2020
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