<jeanne> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group
<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/explainers/visualContrast.html
<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/methods/template.html
<scribe> scribe: janina
js: Split applicability into platform and programming lang; is that a good approach? Need thoughts
sl: Have been thinking of it only as applicability, but am open
jf: Questions "author specifies neither color or background" Is this likely?
js: It's a technique imported
from WCAG to Silver
... It's an example
jf: As presented it doesn't feel like a technique
<AndyS> For those interested: the live SAPC tool is at https://www.myndex.com/SAPC/
janina: Perhaps because read out of context?
jf: So anyone landing here out of context would similarly misunderstand
<AndyS> The GIT repository is https://github.com/Myndex/SAPC/tree/master/JS
js: Suggestion?
jf: Hmmm, perhaps some kind of indicator iconography
<CharlesHall> what about simply using H1s?
js: Asks for someone to help design some visual presentation
<CharlesHall> above the tables, an H1 for: “guidelines”; “methods”; “techniques”
+q to note that our specs say "thissection is normative" or "this section is not normative"
<AndyS> I could help with the design, but am buried....
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to note that our specs say "thissection is normative" or "this section is not normative"
charles: If you drop in out of context, you even miss the H1
js: Noting this is intended to be
a dynamically generated page, not a set of URLs
... Designed to be in a page that does have an H1
... It will come out of whatever cms we deploy this in
charles: So for wide review, we
should clarify
... at the highest level we should indicate the kind of content
one is seeing
js: e.g. "Silver Methods
..."
... Notes to BB that his contributions not yet incorporated
...
js: Also planning to add resource links from Andy's biblio
sl: Asks whether we have another method that could illustrate our approach
js: Working on it
js: Test page is the one I'd like comment on -- most ready
<AndyS> https://www.myndex.com/SAPC/
js: Asks any comments on setup of
methods beyond what we've already noted?
... Notes more plain lang needed
... Over to Andy for visual contrast tooling
andy: See above link
andy mindex.com/sapc
<bruce_bailey> tool is actually combining steps 2 and 3 (step 1 is okay as written)
andy: Enter in two colors and get
a result out; written in js
... code on github; linked at bottom of above tool page
js: Is it intent to get granular enough to pass/not.pass
andy: q do we want a bright
line
... in order to pass, at least 50% contrast
... can do negative %; for light chars on dark background
<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask if font samples are dynamic?
bb: Fond s;amples are not dynamic, yes?
andy: yes
... something to address in the future
bb: showing l40 to l120 ...
andy: research always on heavy
fonts; not much on 100 weight
... concerned about webkit's anti-aliasing ...
jf: Really cool -- just a little
concerned on a few points ...
... Existing WCAG uses points, but you have picsels
... disallowing, forbidding, not our scope ... ... though I
agree below 12 points is problematic
... Though we have guidance on scaling fonts, etc
<Lauriat> +1 to JF
<Lauriat> I do really like how this scales the needed contrast given font attributes.
andy: using picsels because it's
standard for web content, even if not the standard in current
wcag
... css is based on it; lowest common denominator unit
jf: we went through this in 2.1;
it's actually css-px, not just px
... I've no problem if we decide on dss-px, but we need to call
it out
<CharlesHall> i don’t understand this px size recommendation as a normative minimum. i understood it as specifically relative to measuring contrast – much like 1.4.3
andy: Can't use em, it's relative so no meaningful standardization there
jf: but everything also relative screen size
andy: not quite
... css ref px based on human angle of vision
andy 1.27 arc minutes of visual angle
andy: = 1 px
... how big the image focused on the human retina is what
counts
jf: Asks for editorial change to be more specific: css-px
<Zakim> JF, you wanted to speak of prescriptive requirements
<bruce_bailey> please keep the minimum font size question open
andy: both ansi and iso have not be smaller than ...
js: Very excited about this; have
been loading in weird color combos and seeing great
results
... levels seem to be backward ??
andy: examples are to show a
minimum size for that contrast
... 25% should never be text
... anything below may be unusable to anyone with an
impairment
... button, control, might be OK, unlike text
... believe 50-60% should be minimum for text
js: OK, that explains what you have
bb: Notes same first impression; thinking about how to better illustrate
andy: was worried about that,
have some thought on how to fix
... No time yet to program; finished this morning as is!
sl: Assuming these are hard coded?
andy: for now
... some issues with making it dynamic
... 300 weight means different things on different fonts
sl: Can we instead use tricks like canvas elements to render and then alayze which would cover anti-aliasing and would be specific to the screen where it's running
andy: Yes, and it's where I plan
to go
... there are some xerox patents that are now open, so we may
be able to go there
... this is the next step, but it'a big step
... standardization of weight is missing today
... also we want to set standards around X height; which we yet
can't
sl: I'm thinking about doing analysis around a rendered screen
andy: aha
sl: So one can alayze everything,
italics, etc., etc
... essentially a heatmap
andy: My heatmap concept in an
early stage, not yet ready for presentation
... could take much of 2020
sl: Would like to work with you on this because I think we have good possibilities here for people to test
andy: Awesome
... priority so far is getting the basic math working, but
yes!
js: Asks for an editor's note on that
sl: Not sure we need to, because
it's pretty far into the weeds
... This is already an improvement over today
<CharlesHall> +1 on cool stuff
<AndyS> :)
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/andy: Can't use m/andy: Can't use em/ Succeeded: s/21/20/ Succeeded: s/My headmap/My heatmap/ Default Present: jeanne, Lauriat, Makoto, AndyS, janina, JF, CharlesHall, maryjom, KimD, bruce_bailey Present: jeanne Lauriat Makoto AndyS janina JF CharlesHall maryjom KimD bruce_bailey Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]