21 Jan 2020


jeanne, Lauriat, Makoto, AndyS, janina, JF, CharlesHall, maryjom, KimD, bruce_bailey
Shawn, jeanne


<jeanne> Meeting: Silver Task Force & Community Group

Visual Contrast

<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/explainers/visualContrast.html

<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/methods/template.html

<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/methods/Method-visual-contrast-default.html

<scribe> scribe: janina

js: Split applicability into platform and programming lang; is that a good approach? Need thoughts

sl: Have been thinking of it only as applicability, but am open

jf: Questions "author specifies neither color or background" Is this likely?

js: It's a technique imported from WCAG to Silver
... It's an example

jf: As presented it doesn't feel like a technique

<AndyS> For those interested: the live SAPC tool is at https://www.myndex.com/SAPC/

janina: Perhaps because read out of context?

jf: So anyone landing here out of context would similarly misunderstand

<AndyS> The GIT repository is https://github.com/Myndex/SAPC/tree/master/JS

js: Suggestion?

jf: Hmmm, perhaps some kind of indicator iconography

<CharlesHall> what about simply using H1s?

js: Asks for someone to help design some visual presentation

<CharlesHall> above the tables, an H1 for: “guidelines”; “methods”; “techniques”

+q to note that our specs say "thissection is normative" or "this section is not normative"

<AndyS> I could help with the design, but am buried....

<Zakim> janina, you wanted to note that our specs say "thissection is normative" or "this section is not normative"

charles: If you drop in out of context, you even miss the H1

js: Noting this is intended to be a dynamically generated page, not a set of URLs
... Designed to be in a page that does have an H1
... It will come out of whatever cms we deploy this in

charles: So for wide review, we should clarify
... at the highest level we should indicate the kind of content one is seeing

js: e.g. "Silver Methods ..."
... Notes to BB that his contributions not yet incorporated ...

<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/methods/Method-visual-contrast-default.html

js: Also planning to add resource links from Andy's biblio

sl: Asks whether we have another method that could illustrate our approach

js: Working on it

<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/methods/Method-font-characteristic-contrast.html

js: Test page is the one I'd like comment on -- most ready

<AndyS> https://www.myndex.com/SAPC/

js: Asks any comments on setup of methods beyond what we've already noted?
... Notes more plain lang needed
... Over to Andy for visual contrast tooling

andy: See above link

andy mindex.com/sapc

<bruce_bailey> tool is actually combining steps 2 and 3 (step 1 is okay as written)

andy: Enter in two colors and get a result out; written in js
... code on github; linked at bottom of above tool page

js: Is it intent to get granular enough to pass/not.pass

andy: q do we want a bright line
... in order to pass, at least 50% contrast
... can do negative %; for light chars on dark background

<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask if font samples are dynamic?

bb: Fond s;amples are not dynamic, yes?

andy: yes
... something to address in the future

bb: showing l40 to l120 ...

andy: research always on heavy fonts; not much on 100 weight
... concerned about webkit's anti-aliasing ...

jf: Really cool -- just a little concerned on a few points ...
... Existing WCAG uses points, but you have picsels
... disallowing, forbidding, not our scope ... ... though I agree below 12 points is problematic
... Though we have guidance on scaling fonts, etc

<Lauriat> +1 to JF

<Lauriat> I do really like how this scales the needed contrast given font attributes.

andy: using picsels because it's standard for web content, even if not the standard in current wcag
... css is based on it; lowest common denominator unit

jf: we went through this in 2.1; it's actually css-px, not just px
... I've no problem if we decide on dss-px, but we need to call it out

<CharlesHall> i don’t understand this px size recommendation as a normative minimum. i understood it as specifically relative to measuring contrast – much like 1.4.3

andy: Can't use em, it's relative so no meaningful standardization there

jf: but everything also relative screen size

andy: not quite
... css ref px based on human angle of vision

andy 1.27 arc minutes of visual angle

andy: = 1 px
... how big the image focused on the human retina is what counts

jf: Asks for editorial change to be more specific: css-px

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to speak of prescriptive requirements

<bruce_bailey> please keep the minimum font size question open

andy: both ansi and iso have not be smaller than ...

js: Very excited about this; have been loading in weird color combos and seeing great results
... levels seem to be backward ??

andy: examples are to show a minimum size for that contrast
... 25% should never be text
... anything below may be unusable to anyone with an impairment
... button, control, might be OK, unlike text
... believe 50-60% should be minimum for text

js: OK, that explains what you have

bb: Notes same first impression; thinking about how to better illustrate

andy: was worried about that, have some thought on how to fix
... No time yet to program; finished this morning as is!

sl: Assuming these are hard coded?

andy: for now
... some issues with making it dynamic
... 300 weight means different things on different fonts

sl: Can we instead use tricks like canvas elements to render and then alayze which would cover anti-aliasing and would be specific to the screen where it's running

andy: Yes, and it's where I plan to go
... there are some xerox patents that are now open, so we may be able to go there
... this is the next step, but it'a big step
... standardization of weight is missing today
... also we want to set standards around X height; which we yet can't

sl: I'm thinking about doing analysis around a rendered screen

andy: aha

sl: So one can alayze everything, italics, etc., etc
... essentially a heatmap

andy: My heatmap concept in an early stage, not yet ready for presentation
... could take much of 2020

sl: Would like to work with you on this because I think we have good possibilities here for people to test

andy: Awesome
... priority so far is getting the basic math working, but yes!

js: Asks for an editor's note on that

sl: Not sure we need to, because it's pretty far into the weeds
... This is already an improvement over today

<CharlesHall> +1 on cool stuff

<AndyS> :)

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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Default Present: jeanne, Lauriat, Makoto, AndyS, janina, JF, CharlesHall, maryjom, KimD, bruce_bailey
Present: jeanne Lauriat Makoto AndyS janina JF CharlesHall maryjom KimD bruce_bailey
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