17 Jan 2020


jeanne, Chuck, Fazio, CharlesHall, maryjom, janina, Andy, bruce_bailey, joecronin, KimD, kirkwood
Shawn, Angela
Mary_Jo_Mueller, janina


<maryjom> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller

<maryjom> scribenic: maryjom

Review draft of Method for Clear Words

<janina> scribe: janina

<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/methods/template.html

js: Demonstrates the template for a method
... Inviting anyone with css skills to help make it look cool

<jeanne> Basic Tab:

<jeanne> Method Title

<jeanne> Short description of Method

<jeanne> Status

<jeanne> Last Updated date

<jeanne> If it is deprecated, that is listed here. Link to replacement, if appropriate.

<jeanne> Platform

<jeanne> Programming Language

<jeanne> If a version difference is significant, be sure to include the version number.

<jeanne> How It Solves User Need

js: Next tab, tech descript; etc. more tabs ...

<Fazio> I like design patterns better

<Fazio> It seems more indicative

js: Last tab will be a changelog
... Multiple tabs will have methods appropriate to that activity
... Test tab in the method would be specific

chuck: so needs a hook back to the guidelines?

js: Absolutely!

<CharlesHall> the comment was “design pattern” is less intimidating than “technical description”

df: Suggesting "design tab' -- to be less intimidating; "Tech spec" sounds more formididable than it needs to be
... Let's not scare people away

js: I think of design pattern as being different from a technical description
... e.g. we could just say "Description"

<bruce_bailey> Tab could just be "detailed description"

js: Points out this is specification material intended for consumption by technical professionals

<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask where method describes GL it is for

bb: Suggests ""Detailed Description"
... asks where we indicate solution of user need

js: Haven't given that aspect much thought yet? Top? Bottom?

<Andy> Similarly: code samples — will it always be code? Should it just be "samples"

df: We could have a method apply to more than one guideline--so the linkage might be different, but important to capture

js: Breadcrumbs, plus all applicable guidelines at the bottom

[discussion of what kind of cross linkages go where]

<Fazio> Compartmentalizing is very important and in line with COGA

<Fazio> So, I agree

<bruce_bailey> i think basic tab should link to related guidelines

<bruce_bailey> i think the detailed description tab can link to related methods

<jeanne> Clear Language https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/methods/Method-plain-language-principles.html

<Fazio> Language has a better fit than words

js: Perhaps not a great example because it applies across platforms everywhere; applies universally and is generic
... I also made up the name, consider it a placeholder for now

<Fazio> I like it

js: Happy to get other color suggestions--this was done in some haste
... Resources will currently be a dd list; Rachel is putting together COGA hrefs

<Fazio> blue background with white text is most comprehendible according to research

<bruce_bailey> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lmTpfgublIqRggMVbrwo55FMlyJo3Avp_TAvpuFttxI/edit#heading=h.bet2jy61ll3p

bb: Began with that visual contrast draft ...
... Pretty good shape, but some more refinement would be good

<jeanne> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/silver/conformance-js-dec/guidelines/explainers/visualContrast.html

js: This is the Explainer for Visual Contrast
... Algo section needs some work to make it less technical
... We need people to be able to plug in their colors and content without worrying about the algo

andy: Suggesting a javascript to give people analysis

chuck: Not here, because we want to keep it real simple at this point. Now, somewhere else? Yes!

js: We also need to consider tooling; will consider further

andy: Suggesting having a tool available; not javascript source

chuck: So, if we can provide a tool? Would that be OK?

<Fazio> That's really intimidating to have all that content in Get started

charles: Think super useful, but maybe not this tab ...

andy: If tools are useful, why not embed them?
... the canonical tool

bb: Asks for illustrations, too
... Good grx would really help

andy: Perhaps the contrast horse-shoe? big fonts, little fonts,

chuck: Hesitate on that one ...
... Think simple

andy: Let me know

bb: Number cruncher first
... contrast, font size weight -- is that the one you mean?

<bruce_bailey> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lmTpfgublIqRggMVbrwo55FMlyJo3Avp_TAvpuFttxI/edit#heading=h.kletf9lw9bsp

<Fazio> I'm concerned with cognitive fatigue navigating this

andy: Will do math first then the illustration

js: Agrees
... We can live with the grx for now

df: Concerned about cognitive fatigue around this
... Wondering about different design

bb: Clarifies you mean "Getting Started"

df: Yes

bb: How and esceptions are still empty--so moving that info makes sense

<bruce_bailey> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-silver/2020Jan/att-0021/visual_contrast_method.html

chuck: Was very excited about this at first, and still think it's getting there, but there's some confusing language

<Chuck> 3. Calculate the relative contrast of Rt and background Rb.

<Chuck> 3. Calculate the relative contrast using the luminance computed in the previous step of the text (Rt) and background (Rb).

<CharlesHall> +1

chuck: Also needs language about allowing browser to just handle it all

bb: That's coming

chuck: Were I developer, I believe I could follow this and so thrilled by the js tool!

andy: Soon, soon!
... Is this github and I can provide a pr?

js: Not yet, but soon
... Word doc for now with track changes

bb: Andy, look for attachment sent at 1:06 (EST)
... Ah, yesterday!
... Thursday

andy: Got it!

chuck: Noting I will be in Inda for the next 3 weeks

<bruce_bailey> Content does not specify text or background color, and is not relying upon technology that changes those defaults.

<bruce_bailey> Content does not specify text characteristics or background color, and is not relying upon technology that changes those defaults from an end-user’s prefered settings.

<Chuck> +1

js: How does that help me as a developer?

bb: It says let it alone; you're not an artist!

chuck: Leave it to the agent

js: What about people using cms?

<jeanne> Use the browser defaults and don't change any of the colors or font sizes.

<CharlesHall> The author specifies neither text color nor background, and does not use CSS.

chuck: Would not want to say "browser" specifically

bb: "Content does not" seems more portable

<CharlesHall> “neither text nor background properties are applied to the content”

<bruce_bailey> http://w3.org/wai/wcag21/techniques/general/g148.htm

[discussion of g148 and its antecedents]

js: If it lists WCAG, all the better

bb: Just noting my time constraint right now

js: I can, if you don't mind!
... Copy and Past R Use

<maryjom> Suggestion from Mary Jo: Content uses default user agent (e.g. browser) colors for text and the text background and does not rely upon technology, such as CSS, that changes those defaults.


maryjo: Making it easier to understand would be helpful

js: Name?

maryjo: Haven't figured name yet

<Andy> Method: "Use Default Font Characteristics"

<Andy> Method: "Use Default Font Properties"

maryjo: Asks whether anyone from AGWG can participate in Silver F2F

js: Absolutely!

<Andy> I like the phrasing CHall posted, "Neither txt nor bg..."

<bruce_bailey> text: Content uses default user agent (e.g. browser) text characteristics and background color and does not rely upon technology (e.g. CSS) that changes those defaults.

<Andy> Neither being more clear, as it should be a FAIL of text is specified but not BG or vice versa

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: jeanne, Chuck, Fazio, CharlesHall, maryjom, janina, Andy, bruce_bailey, joecronin, KimD, kirkwood
Present: jeanne Chuck Fazio CharlesHall maryjom janina Andy bruce_bailey joecronin KimD kirkwood
Regrets: Shawn Angela
Found Scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
Found Scribe: janina
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