Silver Community Group Teleconference

17 Dec 2019


jeanne, Lauriat, janina, CharlesHall, Rachael, maryjom, Makoto, KimD, bruce_bailey, Chuck
Shawn, jeanne


<Andy> present

<scribe> scribe: jeanne

Group work check-in

<Rachael> Jeanne: On Clear Language. We sent the clear language draft with the tests to the COGA task force for comments. We received some great comments from them and also from Pearson. We spent the meeting this week reviewing comments and incorporating them into the draft. Once we polish the method, I think we'll have 1 method but it will be a big one. Once we show it to you, we will want feedback on whether it needs to be broken up. It fits together well...

<Rachael> ...its nice to have it in one place. We are on track to have it completed by early January.

<Rachael> Shaun: Should we provide comments

<Rachael> Rachael: I'd like to get all the comments in before the next review.

<Rachael> Jeanne: Lets plan on Friday

<Rachael> Jeanne: That's it for clear words.

Makoto: Alt text had meeting Thursday. We are focusing on Copy/Paste of WCAG documents. We used Content Creation Process document
... we are working on Part 3, Todd is reviewing Techniques, Jennifer is reviewing UAAG, and Cybele is reviewing ATAG. Makoto is reviewing other documents
... we are meeting this week

Charles: No update.
... working on the recruiting from with some people who have been lurkers

<bruce_bailey> No additional work on Audio Description

Andy: Visual Contrast
... I sent the simplified new math to Chuck yesterday
... there is a web page with demonstrations if people are interested
... for the first draft, it will be easy to use by the author
... it will work similarly for authors today - enter two colors

<CharlesHall> ISO 9241-220:2019

Andy: we need to set the levels.
... should we match the ISO document?

<CharlesHall> that one is largely about process in organization to support the requirements

Jeanne: Concerned that we can't reference a document that people have to pay for.

Andy: WCAG references it.
... thinking about what we can get done by February to include here.
... there is other research we can grab.

<Andy> https://www.myndex.com/WEB/WCAG_CE17polarity

Shawn: I can ask people at Google to research levels
... I think for FPWD the important thing is to show people the math.

Chuck: I have the pseudo code, which I can drop in IRC
... I am thinking of 3 benchmarks that will be familiar to people in WCAG.
... that should give us enough material for having a draft ready for February

<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask about reference paid spec

<Rachael> Jeanne: We were told with ATAG a few years ago that we were not allowed to reference ISO in a normative area

Bruce: I don't think that referencing ISO is a problem

<Rachael> Janina: I wonder if that is what Andy was seeing in WCAG? A non normative reference.

<Rachael> Andy: Its in 1.4.4. and 1.4.6

Andy: It's in the Understanding document

<Rachael> Jeanne: Understanding is not normative

ANdy: We have a tracable line of reference until we have our own empirical data
... I would like to discuss with Google team that works on it. I have 8 months of research.
... do we want to consider this a wide spectrum of user needs?

Bruce: I have been following this discussion for months. I haven't seen anywhere documented where the problem is being addressed. There is a error in the last digit of a six-digit number I haven't heard that it is a problem.

Andy: I haven't heard that it has a negative effect.
... I'm not using the RGB formula, it's IEC standard, not ISO. Could reference wikipedia for the formula.
... it's a matter of optics. The new math doesn't reference it. I consider it a non-issue.

Chuck: Action items
... take the levels: I will do that.
... I've heard researching referencing the ISO standard: Who owns that? Jeanne
... Who can connect with Google Design Team?

Shawn: I will connect with the people in Google.

Bruce: I'm interested in the answer to referencing the ISO standard. Is it any standard?

Jeanne: That is my understanding from what we had to do for ATAG. It may have been set after WCAG 2.0 was published.

Alt text method writing exercise

<Rachael> Jeanne: This is in the process content instructions.

<Rachael> ...we have been running into this in Clear Language. I thought it would be useful for the group to do enough of a rubric so everyone knows what to do and we find the problems with it.

<Rachael> ...its in develop tests


<Rachael> ...after # 6 (Scroll down that heading) there is an example which is a simple rubric, not necessarily a good one, made up on the fly.

<Lauriat> Jeanne (reads): Text describes the purpose of the image within the context of the surrounding material. It is succinct and is written using plain language techniques. See Clear Words guideline for specifics on plain language.

<Rachael> Jeanne: There is a number of ways to do rubrics. It is the most simple but I don't think its that useful for us.

<Rachael> ...what we did in clear words is a more complex rubric, multicolumn. It approaches it differently


<Rachael> ...this is more complex. When you have a lot of factors, you want to look at each individually. The simple rubric is only looking at a few factors.

<Rachael> ...if the factors are yes/no, it works well in the simple rubric. It has the purpose of the image. etc. If it has all 3 things, then it gets the full credit.

<Rachael> ...if it has 2/3 it gets partial credit.

<Rachael> ...if it describes the purpose but is verbose and doesn't work it gets even less credit.

<Rachael> ..How do you decide what type of rubric to set up?

<CharlesHall> https://www.w3.org/TR/act-rules-format/#test-cases

<Rachael> Shaun: Didn't ACT have a really good set of tests for this? It was a playbook to start with very simple questions. Find something with an image. Is there an text? Yes/No etc

<CharlesHall> pass / fail / inapplicable

<Rachael> Jeanne: We couldn't find it either.

<Rachael> Shawn: I think I found it

<Lauriat> https://disic.github.io/rgaa_referentiel_en/criteria.html#test-1-1-1

<Rachael> IT has a series of test: Test 1.1.1: Does each image (img tag) have an alt attribute? Test 1.1.2: Does each area (area tag) of an image map have an alt attribute? Test 1.1.3: Does each form button (input tag with the type="image" attribute) have an alt attribute? Test 1.1.4: Does each clickable area of a server-side image map have an equivalent link in the page?

<Rachael> It has a set of tests for each type of image. It also has tests for each decorative image.

<Lauriat> Criterion 1.3 [A] For each image conveying information with a text alternative, is this alternative relevant (except in particular cases)?

<Lauriat> Criterion 1.6 [A] Does each image conveying information have a detailed description if necessary?

<Rachael> Shawn: A bit more on captcha. One asking if detailed description. It gives you a playbook of does it have this thing? If if does have this thing, is it relevant?

<CharlesHall> and all of that follows the test case rule: “Each rule must have one or more test cases for passed, failed, and inapplicable outcomes. A test case consists of two pieces of data, a snippet of each input aspect for a rule, and the expected outcome for that rule.”

<maryjom> https://section508coordinators.github.io/ICTTestingBaseline/06Images.html

<Rachael> ...it walks you through decisions. It provides a structured way of making the decisions

<Rachael> Jeanne: The rgaa is for the french tests

<Rachael> Shaun: This is not what I was looking for but it is structured the way I imagined.

<Rachael> https://www.w3.org/TR/act-rules-format/#expectations

<CharlesHall> https://www.w3.org/TR/act-rules-format/#test-cases

<maryjom> https://act-rules.github.io/rules/

<Rachael> Jeanne: Nope. This si the rules for setting up a test.

<Rachael> Maryjom: This is the draft rules.

<Rachael> ...There will be a different repository when its done but this is something to look at.

<Rachael> Jeanne: Is there a way to pull all the tests written for a specific WCAG test criteria?

<Rachael> ??: Not to my knowledge


<Rachael> Jeanne: You can use that to find all the rules and then you can use the rule to see all the test cases

<Rachael> Shawn: I think these are in line with what we were considering for Silver

<Lauriat> https://act-rules.github.io/rules/9eb3f6#applicability

<Lauriat> Applicability The rule applies to any HTML input element with a type of image, or any HTML element with the semantic role of img, that is included in the accessibility tree, and has an accessible name that is equivalent to the filename specified in the src attribute.

<Rachael> There are many ways to get a rendered image into html.

<Rachael> Jeanne: I don't see how this addresses quality.

<Rachael> Shawn: It doesn't so much.

<Lauriat> https://act-rules.github.io/rules/9eb3f6#test-cases

<Rachael> Jeanne: I am just picking this as an example. There are many tests in WCAG that need a quality test. We are not trying to show how to test alt text so much as we are trying to talk about how do we test quality when it is subjective.

<Rachael> ...what we are trying to do with the rubric is help say whether it is good.

<Rachael> Shawn: I think the french tests does this best.

<Rachael> ...the first test case has a passing exampe and a failed example.

<Rachael> Shawn: I like the French' structure of walking through this.

<Rachael> Jeanne: I like this as well.

<Rachael> ...where do we want to go from here?

<Rachael> Shawn: I think we should put together the tests for images first.

<Rachael> Jeanne: Can we pick another area to create an example for people to mess around with so everyone can see how to write the quality tests. Maybe that isn't what the group wants to spend time on but I thought it would be useful.

<Rachael> Shawn: I think if we do headings, it will help. I'm open to other people opinions on that.

<Rachael> +1 to doing hte exercise and using headings

<Rachael> Jeanne: What do people think about this issue? How does it apply to your work? Think about an example we can discuss on Friday.

<Rachael> ...and we'll show more about clear words.

<Rachael> ....Andy can you have your content ready by Friday?

<Rachael> ...thank you everyone. have a great holiday if we don't see you friday.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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Present: jeanne Lauriat janina CharlesHall Rachael maryjom Makoto KimD bruce_bailey Chuck
Regrets: Jan
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Found Date: 17 Dec 2019
People with action items: 

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