Personalization Task Force Teleconference -- 02 Dec 2019

<LisaSeemanKest> clear agenda

<CharlesL> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/rewrite-prototype/content/index.html#values

distractions - See thread at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2019Nov/0011.html

<scribe> scribe: JF

LS: revisiting Distractions

<CharlesL> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/rewrite-prototype/content/index.html#values

<LisaSeemanKest> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/rewrite-prototype/content/index.html#values

LS: changed advertisment to offer - seems we are all good with that
... Now looking at Animation - often means "drawn"

CL: we tweaked the description of that term previously - notes that we recognized XR as out of scope for this

<CharlesL> scribe+ Charles

<CharlesL> JF: We suspect that XR (AR/VR) is out of scope, we don't know yet since this is really new

<CharlesL> … VR - maybe a VR test that you are learning to drive a car, that animation is critical animation you driving down the road, but signs along the side may not be critical.

<CharlesL> LS: make clear in the distraction it can't be the primary article.

<LisaSeemanKest> Description

<LisaSeemanKest> The distraction attribute should be used on non-essential detracting content, so that people who have problems keeping focus can turn the content off. An example user experiences would be to hide all non-essential distracting content.

<CharlesL> JF: the intention of distraction is meant for secondary to the page not the primary.

<CharlesL> LS: we did actually. its secondary, the description of the attribute is "non-essential"

<CharlesL> JF: I think we have it in a table and different terms non primary, supplemental, auxiliary.

<LisaSeemanKest> https://www.w3.org/TR/personalization-semantics-content-1.0/#distraction-explanation

<CharlesL> LS: this table is for us for editing purposes, so may not have all the extra descriptions.

<LisaSeemanKest> resolve add term non essential in definition

LS: Should we then add "non-essential" or similar to the defintions?

CL: where it makes sense

<CharlesL> JF: we don't have anything non-essential, so maybe we are missing something.

<CharlesL> LS: data-distraction=other might be useful.

<CharlesL> JF: auto-starting to me is like media like videos, video plays all the time. We tell folks not to do that for SR users.

<CharlesL> … animations seems somewhat problematic.

<CharlesL> LS: we are going to add non-essential to the definitions. that should be well covered now.

<CharlesL> … I think animations was closed last week. auto starting/auto updating maybe we can address with aria-live, but that doesn't cover essential vs. non-essential. Maybe having distraction other.

<CharlesL> JF: if its essential then don't tag it.

LS: Q?

BG: had some questions about auto-starting and auto-updating... but keep going

LS: one question from last week : do we need it if we have ARIA live regions and aria alerts?
... we could use that, but do we want to?

<LisaSeemanKest> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2019Nov/0011.html

LS: auto-starting implies movement - should we include that in the definition?
... Do we want auto-updating and auto-starting, or do we rely on ARIA?

<CharlesL> JF: I would be in favor of auto-starting, we don't have a strong way to find out if the video set to auto-start. there is a broader use. we will say it auto-starts unless you turn it off.

<CharlesL> … do we need a 2nd attribute of an existing attribute. for auto-updating we can tag a region that is aria-live region. for auto-updating

<CharlesL> Lisa: need a way to say that this aria-live region is nonessential auto-updating content.

<Zakim> janina, you wanted to note that the Amazon shopping interface continues to update as one scrolls

<LisaSeemanKest> we lost you janina

<CharlesL> JF: case like price increases or quantity aria-live.

<janina> brb

<CharlesL> LS: aria-live would be put on non-essential content.

<CharlesL> JF: but doesn't it make that content essential.

<CharlesL> LS: no like our use case with the stock ticker which is non-essential and very frustrating

<CharlesL> … very polite content which is not urgent. aria-live on non-essential content.

<CharlesL> … how do you fee about data-distraction=other?

<CharlesL> … then we can get rid of auto-updating.

LS: proposes adding distraction="other" and then eleminate "auto-updating"

<CharlesL> JF: I am not opposed to adding a catch-all good authoring explanation. subjective key to author. either they are going to use it may use it wrong. seems very broad. I am on the fence. auto-updating my concern is it could be added to essential and non-essential regions.

JF: my concern is that auto-updating can apply to both essential and non-essential regions

LS: Becky's suggesting for auto-start?

BG: concerned about "other" being abused

JF: could we go with distraction="T/F"?

<CharlesL> … there is a TYPE which is part of the video attributes

<CharlesL> Lisa: maybe Static, moving, overlay as the main distractions.

<CharlesL> JF: gross motor control, distraction type helps clarify it

<CharlesL> … what if we used realtime?

<CharlesL> LS: we don't have messages

<CharlesL> Becky: would that be Static?

<CharlesL> JF: how can something static be a distraction?

<CharlesL> LS: thirdparty is normally a distraction. which can be static

<CharlesL> … some can't cope with that, some can.

https://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-html5-20110113/video.html#attr-media-autoplay

<CharlesL> JF: I am ok auto-updating, but auto start is already there.

<CharlesL> LS: do we want to pair this down to 3 levels of distracting content.

<LisaSeemanKest> static, moving , overlay

<CharlesL> JF: I am saying that we have 10 proposed types of distraction (3rd party is good, offer might be ok, moving/updating is similar… I think we can cut down the list

<CharlesL> Becky, I think john is saying we can merge some values, maybe not 3 is too limiting.

<CharlesL> Becky: I don't think 3 is enought

<CharlesL> LS: what is chat and messages

<CharlesL> … so we need messages as well.

<CharlesL> … moving includes annotation

<LisaSeemanKest> static, moving , overlay, messages, third party , offers

moving = animations, autostart, moving messages = chat, message, auto-update overlay = overlay, popup third-party = offer, thirdparty

moving = animations, autostart, moving | messages = chat, message, auto-update | overlay = overlay, popup | third-party = offer, thirdparty

LS: have a comment related to a trust issue. Maybe Distraction isn't the right place, but when you are leaving the mainsite

JS: but it's about behavior - could we build a widget that helps with that?
... complex pages can be built with content from over 100 different sources

LS: does someone want to try writing defintions for these 3 or 4 constrained terms?

<LisaSeemanKest> ACTION: John to draft these new defintion

<trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Draft these new defintion [on John Foliot - due 2019-12-09].

JF: will incorporate existing language if/when possible

<Roy> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/

<LisaSeemanKest> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/

<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/Explainer-notes

<LisaSeemanKest> The tag has the following to say about explainers: https://github.com/w3ctag/w3ctag.github.io/blob/master/explainers.md

trackbot, end meeting

- DRAFT -

Personalization Task Force Teleconference

02 Dec 2019

Attendees

Contents

distractions - See thread at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2019Nov/0011.html

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Scribe.perl diagnostic output