<laudrain> so mny chicken?

<scribe> scribenick: dauwhe

laudrain: I sent an agenda yesterday with two main items

EPUBCheck Development

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: project is still running; there are milestones this fall
... we have been talking about on the management call
... we could reconfigure the dates
... the doc has a more detailed timeline
... it's not a big change
... just a one-month delay
... so we would have to pay for documentation and refactoring/cleanup
... paid end of August
... can I ask for your approval?

<ivan> updated timeline for epubcheck

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: stage two finishes at the beginning of next year.
... any questions?
... I will consider that you approved this change.
... there will be a management call on 22 August

Amazon

laudrain: Jeff sent us an email about amazon's particaption

jeff: the AB meets four times a year; this week we met in Seattle
... in the evening we meet with locals
... as we did in NYC last year
... since we were in Seattle, and Amazon is a new w3c member
... it was suggested that we meet up with amazon
... there were 6-8 amazonians, 3 related to kindle
... they only sent people where they had a specific agenda
... Avneesh put together some issues, which attracted people to the meetup
... 3 people from kindle team, 2 who have recently joined CSSWG
... they seemed interested in w3c stuff
... and eager to work together
... we talked about some specifics
... they ingest EPUB, but lose some a11y info
... which is unfortunate
... Avneesh, Florian, and I are the AB members with some knowledge of publishing
... I talked to Stanton and Giorgio... you'll be at TPAC, would you be OK working with the EPUB community on issues of mutual interest?
... they said sure, let's do that.
... Giorgio on the Kindle side
... none of them were audible folks
... so I'd like to have the SC appoint someone to work with them
... and let's spend some time together at TPAC
... wendyreid can add something to PWG agenda
... and they may be joining the EPUB 3 CG

laudrain: this is good news
... and a great opportunity

George: I've met with joanna before
... they have given me some things they want to see coming out of EPUB and other areas
... it would be great if the kindle group could voice these things directly instead of going through me

<mateus> +1 -- very encouraging

George: Joanna has publicly said that the best input for Kindle is reflowable EPUB 3

laudrain: in europe, we are seeking contact with amazon people in context of euro a11y act
... the kindle guidelines ask publishers to create good EPUB files
... even EPUB3 born accessible files... we are eager so that the efforts done in europe for production accessible epub3 convert correctly and with no loss in kindle format
... Gregorio P. did some tests, and we know there some issues, some loss of a11y information
... so we had to chance to meet an amazon manager from europe in a meeting setup by the french minister of culture
... explaining the consequences of the euro a11y act in the future
... both on ebooks and the selling platforms
... that concerns amazon
... and Fernando met these guys in Brussels in july
... so there will be a meeting in october with Cristina M, etc
... we want to discuss a11y and also about amazon approval of EPUB a11y specifications
... for best ingestion format for kindlegen tool
... to build accessible mobi files
... at the meeting we want to show the euro commission that there is already a good spec, epub a11y, and so something new isn't needed
... and this is on an ISO track now
... and so would become the Euro standard
... we will meet in Europe, we can meet at TPAC
... how might this be syncronized

ivan: I was just wondering
... is there a systematic overview of the EPUB 3 features that are forgotten by amazon
... not only a11y but in general
... so we would have a framework of areas where we could work towards syncronization

laudrain: Gregorio did tests from an accessible EPUB3
... we don't have systematic analysis but we can identify some features
... we don't know kindle format spec, as it is not public

Rachel: I can give an example
... Amazon recommends that you avoid tables in your EPUB, because they don't ingest or display properly in Kindle

Garth: it's almost an a11y feature ;)

laudrain: there could be a slot for the PWG f2f in Fukuoka

wendyreid: yes, that's the plan
... I put it on our agenda list
... I've met Stanton before

ivan: I was wondering what the next step was
... who should contact who
... jeff, you said you would be happy to make an introduction

<laudrain> dauwhe: contact with the PWG is great

<laudrain> … their interest may be on EPUB3 , so the CG

dauwhe: it would be good to also talk about epub3

ivan: the pwg can donate some time :)

laudrain: when I speak about issues with amazon in europe
... if we want sync of these discussions, avneesh and I are on both sides, so we can help

<ivan> +1 to jeff

jeff: first, to dave, the reason I suggested the PWG meeting was not about web publications, but because it there was an opportunity
... the next step is to appoint someone to work the agenda

<laudrain> +1 to donate an hour to the CG

jeff: probably the best person would be someone with first-hand experience of the interop problems between EPUB and Kindle

laudrain: Rachel, you have experience

Rachel: um...

wendyreid: I was going to suggest... I'm happy to slot an hour for amazon in the meeting
... but I'd love to have an agenda for it
... jeff, if you can put both me and rachel in touch with stanton and giorgio, we can figure it all out together

garth: that works for me
... the EPUB community, broadly speaking, does need to work with amazon

laudrain: the idea to have this time slot is a good idea
... avneesh and I could have some part of working on the agenda

<Zakim> jeff, you wanted to talk about agenda

jeff: I don't think we should have too many people working on the agenda
... to garth's point about relationship building
... I think we can do multiple things in an hour if we clearly communicate.
... 15min on relationship, 15min on a11y, X minutes on interop, etc.

laudrain: what is the conclusion

garth: wendy and Rachel

Rachel: I'm happy to do it. I have lots of experience with EPUB and Kindle

jeff: everyone else, send your ideas to Wendy and Rachel

laudrain: wendy and rachel, you will be the contact, and then we will share the draft agenda?

Rachel: yes

laudrain: other next steps?
... I'll let you know when we have a date about the federation of european publishers meeting

ivan: if i am optimistic and there is a goal at the end of the meeting for some convergence
... this systematic list of issues is something the community could try to do
... we'll need a place for that

George: regarding the euro directive
... does that also require harmonization from PDF
... folks from NISO have asked if i wanted to be more involved with PDF-UI (?) work

laudrain: yes, you are right
... the euro a11y act doesn't speak about file formats, just says 'ebooks'
... considered as services that need to be accessible
... in 2025 all ebooks will have to be a11y

(have to stop scribing for about two minutes)

<jeff> ... formats include PDF

<jeff> ... George, if you have questions about PDF, LMK

<ivan> scribe+ jeff

<jeff> George: Thank you.

<jeff> Luc: We are done with the topic. We have next steps and assignments.

<jeff> ... Jeff?

<jeff> Jeff: Yup, we are done on this one.

<jeff> Luc: Next point on agenda

PBG event in Japan

<jeff> ... We have 4 items

<ivan> latest version of the agenda

<jeff> ... 4 people for them

<jeff> ... confirmation from the people

<jeff> ... first 2 are more informal

<jeff> ... Murai-sensei keynote

<jeff> ... one session on accessibility

<jeff> ... ISO work - Murata-san

<jeff> ... Daisy Japan people

laudrain: last topic is more brainstorming about publishing
... daihei has a chance to invite people from animation,
... people here are still gathering
... any more questions?

WG TPAC agenda

wendyreid: there's a google doc for the agendat
... we'll discuss in the PWG meeting on Monday

<ivan> F2F agenda page (to be completed)

laudrain: Dave, you opened a discussion in the CG yesterday on the EPUB roadmap?

EPUB discussion

<ivan> scribe+

<laudrain> dauwhe: CG call yesterday started EPUB roadmap

<ivan> scribe-

<ivan> scribe+ laudrain

<laudrain> … very interesting discussions

<laudrain> … on lot of cases figure out what is the scope for spec, RS, outside our control

<laudrain> … design principles for EPUB, like HTML

<laudrain> … foundation principles before starting

laudrain: it's very interesting to see the rapidity of reactions
... and there is a larger community discussing things in the context of production all over the world
... the cg is doing a very interesting job
... not all these items belong to the spec or the cg
... but people working every day with epub are expressing their concerns
... any other business?

(silence)

scribe: thanks everyone, thank you dave for scribing.

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Present: mateus ivan dauwhe george laudrain wendyreid mgarrish jeff Garth Rachel
Regrets: Avneesh daihei liisa
Found ScribeNick: dauwhe
Inferring Scribes: dauwhe
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2019Aug/0010.html
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