tader.info
<laura> http://tader.info/
welcome Andrew to group. introductions
<laura> https://groups.google.com/a/d.umn.edu/forum/#!forum/webdev
<laura> webdev list: https://groups.google.com/a/d.umn.edu/forum/#!forum/webdev
<scribe> scribe: allanj
close item 1
<laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/635
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2019Jul/0016.html
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2019Jul/0017.html
<shawn> 1.4.12: Text Spacing
<shawn> Line height (line spacing) to at least 1.5 times the font size;
lc: loophole, things may fall apart between authors setting and the .12 user setting
sh: the 'at least' may provide a loop hole that things can fall apart at less than the 'max'
lc: can this be done in
Understanding or make a normative change
... no examples in the wild. Patrick was going to make a
failure example
as = Andrew somers
as: tried to create a use case,
from css default to 1.4.12 limit. my understanding is author
allows the user to change to SC max.
... what happens when author has X font that exceeds limits of
1.4.12, then what
<shawn> JA: My understadning is that the author can chhose whatever they want, and that becomes the base. Then the user change change it that much more.
<Zakim> JimA, you wanted to say author sets base, user can change from the base
as: SC needs to state changes
relative to author settings
... authors override browser CSS default, user can override
author setting relative to authors esthetics.
... browsers need to cooperate with this.
... letter spacing, contrast etc are relative to the font size,
and author esthetics. user stylesheet and current CSS are a
blunt tool
wd: test spacing daily. have issues with grids and tables. have had little or no issues with letter spacing.
<Wayne> no -- understanding
as: comments in 635 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/635
<laura> Before the Working Group changes normative SC text, it would be good to have information on how an author could create something that would work at the SC's metrics and fail in between.
<laura> At the AG's July 23, 2019 meeting, @patrickhlauke said he thought it was possible and kindly offered to put together an example. Before making a decision, can we see it?
as: issue with SC wording.
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/635#issuecomment-514753884
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say 1. with-WAI-Outreach-Hat-on: Please do not make the SC more complex for an unproven loop hole. Good to clarify in Understanding doc, 2.
ack
sh: wai-outreach hat.... please
do not make SC more complex - for unproven loophole. don't make
more complex. clarify in understanding
... in reading comment threads. personal hat - sometimes i need
higher than the SC minimums. go to say in Undersading .
... authors do not need to use the settings. this definitely
needs to be in understanding. may need to be in the SC.
lc: +1 to shawn and needing more than the SC limit. don't like "up to"
sh: agrees with no "up to"
... the SC says "at least", if something fails at above SC
numbers, it sets a minimum threshold.
ja: SC are a minimum settings
as: not technically failing if line height is 1.6 and breaks the page. but must work from 1.5 and below. Authors should feel free to go beyond the minimum. don't want the SC to be a ceiling.
<laura> suggest adding something such as the following to the undersrtanding doc:
<laura> "The specified metrics set a minimum baseline. Anything over the metrics passes and anything under the metrics fails. In addition, values in between the author's metrics and the metrics specified in this SC should not have loss of content or functionality."
+1 laura
wd: this seems edge case. add things to understanding.
RESOLUTION: leave current 1.4.12 SC test as "at
least"
... Change the understanding document for 1.4.12 and LVTF will
update the doc
ja: address heavily in Understanding, at the beginning.
<shawn> "In content implemented using markup languages that support the following text style properties, no loss of content or functionality occurs by setting all of the following and by changing no other style property:"
sh: do we propose a change to SC for 2.2 or not complicate things
<shawn> "In content implemented using markup languages that support the following text style properties, no loss of content or functionality occurs [when users set] all of the following and by changing no other style property:"
lc: initial thought... not complicate things
<shawn> brainstorm from andrew "Success Criterion 1.4.12 Text Spacing (Level AA):" -> "Success Criterion 1.4.12 Text Spacing User Override (Level AA):"
as: change stem to Text Spacing - User override
<shawn> current wording - "The intent of this Success Criterion (SC) is to ensure that people can override text spacing to improve their reading experience."
wd: "ensure that user can override the authors text spacing"
<scribe> ACTION: jim to update 1.4.12 understanding with wayne
<trackbot> Created ACTION-115 - Update 1.4.12 understanding with wayne [on Jim Allan - due 2019-08-01].
<shawn> lc: is "handle" not normative?
<shawn> sh: Worth looking into possible change to "handle" - maybe not totally smooth, yet maybe best approach given overall considerations.
ja: user functioning vs numbers. author proposes, user disposes - Al Gilman
wd: 2.5 acuity to font size, unless central vision damage, then goes to 3:1
as: acuity is highest contrast in clinical environment...best environment.
rssagent, make minutes
trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ a new SC for 2.2/ a change to SC for 2.2/ Succeeded: s/disposes./disposes - Al Gilman/ Default Present: jim, wayne, shawn, laura, andrew Present: jim wayne shawn laura andrew Regrets: JoAnne No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: JimA Found Scribe: allanj WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 25 Jul 2019 People with action items: jim WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]