W3C

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

25 Jul 2019

Attendees

Present
anne_thyme, Carlos, Jean-Yves, Daniel, Wilco
Regrets
Chair
Wilco
Scribe
anne_thyme

Contents


<Wilco> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.

<Wilco> clear agenda

<scribe> scribe: anne_thyme

REMEMBER: Sign up for face-to-face meeting 24-25 September 2019 #708

Wilco: We have a face-2-face meeting coming up in September, 24-25, in Copenhagen

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/community/act-r/act-rules-cg-face-to-face-meeting-on-24-25-september-2019-in-copenhagen-denmark/

Carlos: There is a registration form link in the "Registration" section

<dmontalvo> Link to the registration form: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/ACT-R-Sep19/

Wilco: yes, please remember to sign up. I will be joining

fix: show rule that do not have accessibility mapping requirements #701

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/701

Jey: There was a discussion in a call with Siteimprove about an ARIA rule that doesn't show in the rules list on the website

<Wilco> https://act-rules.github.io/rules/

Jey: However, this fix will also list all atomic rules that are only used as input rules in composite rules
... Discussion is whether we want that. And then maybe add filtering instead to allow for users to filter for only rules that have accessibility requirements

Wilco: So that question is whether we want filtering? What type of filtering do you propose?

Jey: Id, input aspects etc.

Jean-Yves: And maybe filtering for keywords in the rule names
... And for rules that are required for WCAG conformance
... I think we have that many rules, that filtering will make sense

Wilco: First uncover the use cases

Jey: So the original task was to show the one ARIA rule that doesn't have any accessibility requirements. And a side effect is that a lot of other rules will show up
... Another workaround would be to show only rules with no accessibility requirements if they are not used as input rules in composite rules

Wilco: I think filtering would make sense, and maybe search. Filtering by standard, number of implementations

Carlos: I suggest filtering for success criteria

Wilco: The issue there is that there is an awful lot of them

Jean-Yves: One of the issues currently is that the rules are there in a random order, which makes it hard to get an overview of the rules a user need

Anne: Could search be used to find everything with e.g. "1.1.1" ?

Jey: So what would the user see as a default when landing on the page?

Wilco: Everything, by default

Daniel: I would prefer being able to search for free text

<dmontalvo> Anne: I would also like to be able to search within the whole text of the rule and also some tagging function would be appreciated

Anne: I would like to be able to search through all text in a rule, and I think we should consider using tagging too, if we create filtering. We talked about it in the face 2 face meeting at TPAC in the fall, using the QCAG quickref as a starting point

Shadi: Can we get a way to create issues or pull requests for a rule directly on the website?

Wilco: That can be done

Shadi: Yes, and maybe automatically assign the issue to the rule author

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/edit/develop/_rules/audio-as-media-alternative-afb423.md

Jean-Yves: I think creating our own edit field might be difficult

Wilco: The link I just dropped is just to an edit field for the rule. We can link to that
... We could have a similar feature for creating issues, with some kind of meta data

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/new?title=there+is+an+issue

Wilco: You can also create issues with pre-filled titles (see link right before)

Shadi: (scribe couldn't hear it all)

Wilco: I like the idea of using the "useful links" section

John: I thought everyone forked the repository and worked in that way
... But you can search in Github for content of rules, per Anne's comment earlier. I have used it to search for all rules with assumptions
... Github Search seems really strong to me, I don't know if it would make sense for us to create our own

Jean-Yves: For us who are used to working in Github, Github search is fine, but for everyone who is non-technical and just wants to look up a rule on the website, Github will put them off, so it would be more useful to stay within the presentation on the website

<Zakim> dmontalvo, you wanted to say maybe an input field to search for a specific word withing the rule

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/700

Citing the AAMs #700

Jean-Yves: All the Accessibility API Mappings clearly says that they are work in progress, and it is inappropriate to cite them without clearly stating this
... And we don't state that in the rules that link to them, and I think we should state this every time we cite them in rules or definitions

Wilco: Yes, that sounds reasonable
... Do you want to create a pull request?

Jean-Yves: yes

Wilco: Do you know how many it is?

Jean-Yves: Guessing it is 10-15...

What is the process for handling incoming issues? #696

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/696

Wilco: We didn't really have a process

Anne: The reason why I raise this is that people keep adding issues, including bugs for published rules, and many of them just get lost in the Github repository without being picked up

Wilco: Shadi, how do other groups handle this?

Shadi: Usually the chairs are responsible for triaging and shepherding issues through the process

Wilco: Well, then the chair needs some help...

Jean-Yves: The triaging person could also be someone else than the chair, or we could rotate

Wilco: Maybe the place to start is to host a regular grooming session, where we look at open issues and pull requests and make sure that they are up to date
... I would like 1-2 other people to help out on this

Jey: I would like to help

Jean-Yves: I would also like to join the grooming

Wilco: Let's schedule some regular meetings to get this list down to a reasonable size, and then afterwards we can discuss how to handle it going forward
... We should probably do the same with the pull requests
... I'll assign this to myself and leave a comment about the decision

Add many missing links to glossary #695

Wilco: I started reviewing this, but didn't yet complete since there are a lot of files. Jean-Yves, why did you pick this up

Jean-Yves: There are different reasons for why it makes sense to link to the definition every time the term is used
... It makes the term stand visually out and remind that this is not just random use of the word, but actually referring to a glossary term. And it will aid navigation for people with disabilities
... It will also make maintenance easier, because there is no danger of loosing the link to the definition from a rule if editing the first sentence using the term.

Wilco: The thing that is different is that we have only consistently used the term in the applicability and expectations. You have put them in background and examples as well. I think that is a style choice
... Our current use is inspired by WCAG where definition links are not used in examples, but just in the normative sections

Anne: WCAG is also quite inconsistent about that. It often links from informative sections too.

Jean-Yves: I don't think that we are linking consistently in the applicability and expectation
... and there could be cases where we talk about "semantic role" in the expectation, but then an example talks about "explicit semantic role", which hasn't been used before in that rule

Wilco: yes...
... I would like to put some automated testing in place for this

Jean-Yves: It won't be 100% reliable though, because people could e.g. be using plural form of the terms.

Wilco: Agreement on putting tests in place
... I agree with this change, but will review the pull request

Jean-Yves: I will put some tests in place in a separate pull request

Add "language" as an input aspect to rules that has to do with evaluating meaning #671

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/671

Anne: I think we need to add "Language" as an input aspect in a bunch of rules that has to do with evaluating meaning, since e.g. knowing whether a document title is descriptive requires understanding of the language that the title and the page is in

Wilco: Sounds reasonable

Jean-Yves: I think we need to state clearly in the examples as well, what the language of the example is

Anne: If the test cases are supposed to be usable in isolation, we need to put it in the description of the example.

Wilco: yes, then in the description, and in the language attribute within the test case

Anne: I don't really see what the language attribute has to do with this

John: Yes, here we are talking about language analysis

Wilco: The language attribute is a good heuristic for that

Anne: I think we would be confusing people by mixing in language attributes, that is something we test for in completely different rules

Wilco: Ok... Then still keep it in the test case description?

Anne: yes

Wilco: But it is a concern for me that it is not available within the test case, because automated testing tools don't necessarily get the description...
... Can you come up with a suggestion?

Anne: Yes

<Wilco> https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+review%3Arequired+

Wilco: On another note, if you have time this week, please review some of the pull requests here

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
$Date: 2019/07/25 09:02:42 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154  of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Present: anne_thyme Carlos Jean-Yves Daniel Wilco
Found Scribe: anne_thyme
Inferring ScribeNick: anne_thyme

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)


[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]