Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

26 Jun 2019


jasonjgw, janina, scott_h, MichaelC, SteveNoble, Joshue108_
Joshuue108, janina


<Joshue108_> scribe: Joshuue108

CAPTCHA Note - brief update.

<Joshue108_> JW: Congrats! CFC passed..

<Joshue108_> JS: We have a decsion, no objection.

<Joshue108_> In Michaels hands..

<Joshue108_> MC: Have some editorial feedback, do start a blog.

<Joshue108_> Some tweaks..

<Joshue108_> I think it is ready to go today, but will do some final checks.

<Joshue108_> Having the blog ready would be helpful.

<Joshue108_> JS: Will do this morning.

<Joshue108_> JS: Thats for agreed on draft.

<Joshue108_> Comment period 28th July..

<Joshue108_> MC: 26th instead?

<Joshue108_> JS: Ok

<Joshue108_> JS: We have a request.. regarding comments recieved etc.

<Joshue108_> We have a comment, but don't think there is anything being added.

<Joshue108_> If so, they are welcome to say.

<Joshue108_> JS: I've something on internationaisation via GH

<Joshue108_> JS: I've not looked, so must be recent.

<Joshue108_> JW: Haven't looked in detail.

<Joshue108_> JS: Additional changes needed?

<Joshue108_> JW: Could be, also could be addressed in next review.

<Joshue108_> FYI

<Joshue108_> JS: Will look. Thanks to Steve also about looking for illustrations.

<Joshue108_> I like the idea, but only if we can find images that support the presentation.

<Joshue108_> Have created branch..

<Joshue108_> We may have trouble finding license free stuff..

<Joshue108_> JW: Am concerned about licensing etc..

<Joshue108_> SN: Most of the CAPTCHA solutions are proprietary..

<Joshue108_> Under copyright, have to use under fair use..

<Joshue108_> Unless you find open source stuff.

<Joshue108_> But can't find many etc

<Joshue108_> JW: Most of the research related images are same..

<Joshue108_> <discussion on lack of suitable images and licensing>

<Joshue108_> JS: So you cant trust what you find on line.

<Joshue108_> SN: True.

<Joshue108_> JS: Recognises an audio file that was used previously - but Google may give us some images.

<Joshue108_> Lets get the content done and take it from there.

<Joshue108_> 2.1 enhanced version next year?

<Joshue108_> SN: Makes sense.

<Joshue108_> JW: Need to make sure we are comfortable with the internationalsation stuff doing that later..

<Joshue108_> JS: We can still put it in, thats part of the CFC

Real-time communication accessibility.

<Joshue108_> <thanks all round>

<janina> scribe: janina

jo: Created a use case comparison matrix, local to me for the moment

<Joshue108_> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5194#section-5.1

jo: It's a fantastic doc
... WebRTC needs to be aware of this, if they're not already, and to use it
... Comparing our use cases to the IETF doc
... Suspect most of what we want will be covered
... Beyond anything we have that's outside that doc, we should recommend it be used
... Looking to identify which of ours aren't covered. It's in process work.

\jgw: Noted interoperability with instant messaging is included, which might help cover the "write" use case

jgw: So, it's at least partially covered

<Joshue108_> JW: At that point it may be a user agent issue..

<Joshue108_> If you treat the carraige return as end of transmission.

<Joshue108_> I want the IRC use to be supported.

<Joshue108_> JW: Sounds like they partially do this.

<Joshue108_> JS: But once you hit ENTER its the end transmission?

<Joshue108_> JOC: Yes

<Joshue108_> JW: its close if not entirely the same - need to clarify those issues.

<Joshue108_> JW: At least some deaf blind, using Braille display may scroll the text accross the display as it is entered.

jgw: Need to check deaf-blind use cases

<Joshue108_> JS: I may have someone to talk to about this.

<Joshue108_> JOC: Me 2

<Joshue108_> JOC: I'll be continuing my use case review and will share my findings with the group asap.

[discussion of how to present a comparison]

jo: Noting the use case of pushing data stream output to a second screen device

Text communication data channel

<Joshue108_> JS: Wondering how to capture this..

<Joshue108_> There is a bug in Android - Braille not handles well in general.

<Joshue108_> We need to capture that focus needs to move..

<Joshue108_> Not stay with the last thing the user read.

jgw: User needs to be informed new text has appeared

js: Focus needs to stay on new text

jgw: Could be implementation for tracking, but you need to know if you've taken your attention to another window

<Joshue108_> JS: If you have not moved away and are in that window, you do want a new text stream to come in to respond..

<Joshue108_> Either dots from Braille output or speech from SR

<Joshue108_> You don't want your main device to take this,,

<Joshue108_> SH: You don't want a dialog type thing that overrides everything..

sh: Notes wcag status

jo: but you might want them received on a second screen

jgw: Want to make sure focus isn't pulled back to new text if the user is reviewing history of com

<Joshue108_> JS: two comments - need to be clear about how RTT works in US implementations..

<Joshue108_> Its not what I expected, when I looked at this for T-mobile..

<Joshue108_> <explains how optioning works with RTT in practice>

<Joshue108_> You don't take a call in the way you do now, could be video.

<Joshue108_> Its more complex, there is a web aspect. Could be web based object.

<Joshue108_> We aggreed in the MAUR that the term for another device is a second screen..

<Joshue108_> Thats a generic term 'second screen' for that extra device..

<Joshue108_> Early MAUR had a gnarly heading for that...

<Joshue108_> JOC: Is that a convention you would like to maintain?

<Joshue108_> JS: Yes, we need to link with them to make sure they still understand this.

<Joshue108_> +1 to linking in with them.

<Joshue108_> JW: Just to note RFC 5194 has interesting requirements relating to mixed type converstations that can happen..

jgw: Noting mixed com reqs in the RFC

<Joshue108_> One to one, one to many with flexibility..

jgw: have different should/must levels

<Joshue108_> JW: We need to discuss relay services also..

Control relative volume and panning position for multiple audio

jgw: relative levels can be important for various reasons

<Joshue108_> JW: This made it into the CAPTCHA paper as a problem

<Joshue108_> A la telephone verification..

<Joshue108_> When searching for key input and listening for audio cues..

<Joshue108_> JW: I've a related one to that.. its likely at the user agent level.

<Joshue108_> XR work may move it into application level

jgw: Much of this may be user agent, XR will be related and may move it to the browser

<Joshue108_> was thinking of 3F audio/

<Joshue108_> s\3F\3d

<Joshue108_> JS: WebEx gives a representation of who is speaking..

<Joshue108_> AT&T also looked at positioning in the stereo field.

<Joshue108_> Good use case in stereo telephony..

<Joshue108_> We are getting higher quality but not multi channel.

<Joshue108_> The WebRTC spec needs to support multichannel audio..

<Joshue108_> We should look at Web Audio spec -

<Joshue108_> JS: Thats a question for APA.

<Joshue108_> ACTION: Janina and APA to look at Web Audio spec in relation to volume and panning position and multichannel

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2199 - And apa to look at web audio spec in relation to volume and panning position and multichannel [on Janina Sajka - due 2019-07-03].

Live Transcription/Captioning

jo: Deaf, oga issue, live transcription ... could be text, aac, or signed

sh: asks about auto sign lang support

jgw: spec talks about adding a relay translation to the video

Need unmute!

<Joshue108_> JOC: Thanks all, very helpful

<Joshue108_> JS: Personalisation TF looking at symbolsets and AAC and translations between text and machine mediated stuff.

<Joshue108_> Active conversation in personalisation, docs to be published soonn.

<Joshue108_> s\soonn\soon

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Janina and APA to look at Web Audio spec in relation to volume and panning position and multichannel

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
$Date: 2019/06/26 14:00:53 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154  of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Default Present: jasonjgw, janina, scott_h, MichaelC, SteveNoble, Joshue108_
Present: jasonjgw janina scott_h MichaelC SteveNoble Joshue108_
Found Scribe: Joshuue108
Found Scribe: janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina
Scribes: Joshuue108, janina

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 26 Jun 2019
People with action items: apa janina

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)

[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]