<jamesn> scribe: Scott_O
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/998 will be assigned as 1.2
jamesn: https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/52 also noted as 1.2
PR: https://github.com/w3c/accname/pull/53
Update the algorithm to handle roles where naming is not supported
jamesn: for later discussion on naming
https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/997 - editorial
jamesn: early bird reg. ends friday. after that date, price goes up often and quickly
jamesn: use case, in spread sheet rename cols and rows
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/994
<joanie> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria/issue-667/index.html#aria-colindextext
<joanie> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria/issue-667/index.html#aria-rowindextext
joanie: currently no reviews
jamesn: already implemented in chromium?
joanie: google sheets uses it now. we're going to be asking to have the ARIA property changed
jamesn: google is doing this, but
no at support?
... if there is any implementation today, it would need to
change for renaming
... is PR ready outside of review?
joanie: yes
jamesn: will merge at beginning of next week pending comments?
jamesn: is there anything left to
do on this issue?
... seems it can just be closed?
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/558
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/789
jamesn: an example was merged
into APG as well
... should be closed
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/805
<joanie> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria/issue699-block-inline/index.html#generic
<jamesn> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/aria/pull/805.html#generic
jamesn: a lot of the complexity was removed
<jamesn> A nameless container element that has no semantic meaning on its own, but can provide accessible states and properties for its descendants.
<jamesn> Contrast with group, which semantically groups its descendants in a named container.
mck: wish there was difference there was saying there is no semantic meaning, and that the element does not explicity have accessibility semantics
carmaleod: html says div represents "its children"
<carmacleod> HTML div defines "represents" as: "Elements in the DOM represent things; that is, they have intrinsic meaning, also known as semantics."
<jemma> do you have url for this?
<jemma> html doc link
mck: maybe just leave it alone. i may try to come up with something better. does it make sense to say the generic element is a nameless container that is semantically insignificant?
<Dorothy_> i like the note that says dont rely on <div> http://www.w3.org/TR/html/grouping-content.html#the-div-element
mck: has no semantic meaning on its own?
<carmacleod> HTML uses "represents" in the definition of div as follows: "The div element has no special meaning at all. It represents its children."
jamesn: not sure we should worry about the exact definition. but what properties does it support or not?
<carmacleod> div: http://w3c.github.io/html/grouping-content.html#the-div-element
jamesn: we'll look at text separation later
<carmacleod> represents: http://w3c.github.io/html/dom.html#represent
pkra: does roledescription make sense on generic?
carmacleod: several of the global attributes need to be prohibited?
I started working on a review of global attributes we should discuss later
mck: if you want to give a roledescription, then give it a proper role first
<Dorothy_> Authors are strongly encouraged to view the div element as an element of last resort, for when no other element is suitable. Use of more appropriate elements instead of the div element leads to better accessibility for readers and easier maintainability for authors.
mck: you could put roledescription on role group, but not on generic
pkra: there's a lot of HTML elements that are mapped to generic
jamesn: but if you want to express a role, you should use a role, not generic
<Dorothy_> generic is abstract?
<carmacleod> no, div and span will default to generic role - it's concrete
joanie: what does it mean 'can provide assessible states and properties for descendants?"
<Dorothy_> div and span will default to NO role
<jamesn> aria-hidden..
joanie: would we actually want an
author to put aria-atomic, or busy, on a generic container, or
a group?
... should there be more authoring guidance on when to or not
use the generic role?
<Dorothy_> still like "NO" role
jamesn: i don't think we want examples in here if we don't want peopel to use them?
joanie: maybe an editors note then?
jamesn: maybe pull from APG for a note here?
mck: maybe APG 1.2 section 9?
<Dorothy_> Use of more appropriate HTML elements instead
carmacleod: if writing web components, why replicate a div?
<pkra> shadow dom.
scott: why do we need role generic?
mck: it's good for ARIA because now we can have a way to prohibit people from naming divs. i think many of the global attribues could be removed
jamesn: divs and spans are generic, but many others would apply as well. it's a necessary building block that we need for role parity
joanie: it's related to many other elements that don't have an accessible name, that are generic, but aren't just divs and spans
carmacleod: i'm going to send an email to alice, domenic, james craig, to clarify why we are really doing this
joanie: we know why we are making them, because you might have a custom component that have various generic elements in the, and if so, we need some sort of ARIA role to correspond with it
<jemma> I see those use cases strongly.
jamesn: are we close, by adding a note, and prohibited naming, and text separation as a future thing, do we think this might be ok to go with more review?
carmacleod: needs prohibited for global attributes
mck: i guess the deal is should go into master, but shouldn't go into publication until other necessary requirements met?
jamesn: i think the global things, other than naming, is a separate pr
joanie: but should be done in 1.2
mck: do we have a separate issue for dissalow the following states and properties from generic?
jamesn: editors note in generic that links to an issue about global attributes?
mck: i'm good with that
scott: i have an issue i will create after this call to take a hard look at global attribute remapping
jamesn: i think we've all come to
consensus for aria-label and labelledby to be prohibited, along
with joanie's accname PR
... if everyone is ok with that, i will go forward there and
resolve matt's issues to review for next weeks' meeting
... these and generic are dependant on each other
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