TOPIC discussing path based gestures
Jake: reason for not including some – added definition – in 2017 there was a definition given for path based gestures and that definition was why it didn't fit, we already had consensus of that definition
Detlev: but that definition never entered the normative text
Jake: right – is not part of
WCAG
... but we have a gap. Problem is because we had a consensus
two years ago, we can put definition in. Acknowledgment that
there's a gap that needs to be filled, may be in 2.2
<JakeAbma> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/758
Detlev: if we end up with another
success criterion 2.2 that fills this gap be very close – seems
like that's not the best from a user perspective. I personally
think if something has not entered the normative text, even if
it was agreed at some time – there can be a change of
understanding. I think many people didn't have a detailed
understanding of the whole pointer issue then.
... definition was a good starting point. We have one now that
may be technically precise but better if it's more
understandable.
... swiping on a screen is more than just endpoints. There is
more to movement of finger on screen or movement of mouse than
and points.
Detlef: if many people are several people think this is something, need to step forward
Jake: haven't seen a draft for 2.2 yet. The alternative would cover more scenarios. On basis of purely the documentation right now and the consensus, that was the reason to go in this direction.
Detlev: maybe there's a benefit
of having a separate one for dragging – anything that can be
dragged.
... I see these things is quite strongly related
Jake: it would be really hard to explain
Detlev: not just what happens as you move across the screen, but also what happens as you move, list etc. and that is something that the user observes while carrying out that gesture
<MarcJohlic> I think this is the current list of proposed 2.2 SCs https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11IKqjRFvkRd2dAfUiyc5whhB3yIYXvSiirWct7KQIB0/edit#gid=0
Detlev: the gesture, the observed
reaction on screen. The second part is missing
... where the element picked up has some constrained part on
the screen – doesn't matter so much where your finger is moving
but if the element is moving in a constrained way it would
count – I think that would've been a clear separation
... for when to provide single point actuation options.
Kathy: we should figure out what Mike is doing – we don't want to repeat work but we need to address our concerns.
Marc: will contact him about it
Kathy: we'll see what comes from that – if we hear back from Mike we can have it on the agenda for next week to talk about further and see how we can close that gap
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Q9md2AvmeTgvsT9GB62BsGvCaalDGtE6
Here's the the whole folder
Discussion about important that people are able to discover without instructions and have instructions – best world is instructions that don't get in the way of discovery without instructions
Detlev: need examples
Kathy: electric readout that's
telling you the different commands on the page rather than
having overlay of help. We have to be a little careful – that's
an area where things evolve continuously. We started with
having overlays. We need to see where things are and what you
can do – vibrating item – there are tons of different ways that
are popping up to make things discoverable.
... we need to give those scenarios where those instructions
are needed
Jake: coach marks – show you where the information is a little bit focused on specific parts of the page, just highlight certain parts. So you don't have all the help information always but you have one place where you re-trigger the coach marks – that's another way of providing instructions
Detlev: the question is would you
really want to fail content if it's well structured and easy to
understand and everything and had a complex gesture that made
it easy to learn by just trying out
... I'm not sure whether requiring these instructions to be
present and available can be made AA I wouldn't know whether to
stop – maybe for new things but every possible page – where
would you stop
Kim: difficult to tell what's difficult for any given person cognitively or physically
Detlev: assuming this is about custom gestures. I thought it was what we used to call complex gestures, swiping, double tap, multipoint gestures – things like that
Jake: I'm not sure if we have the definition yet for what we understand as complex gestures. is a double tap complex gesture
Detlev: it could be a good case including something that's also considered a single-point activation – holding down for more than three seconds on a word you get a pop-up dialog for adding a ,comment things like that
Jake: example, extra options if you hold down on a key, someone was talking about iOS example with the space bar
Kim: two examples – one has been
around for a long time, that's a double tap on the space bar to
get a period. More recent example has been in the operating
system for a couple of revs, but in my experience a lot of
people don't know about it – haven't discovered it. Long press
on the space bar turns the keypad into a trackpad, so you can
move the cursor in text above keeping your hand in the keyboard
area. And then also if you tap with anoth[CUT]
... doing that it turns from moving to selecting. It makes
navigating and selecting text easier – it's a great feature,
but doesn't seem like it's easy to discover.
Kathy: pickup with this SC next time
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Default Present: Kim_Patch, JakeAbma, Kathy, Marc, Detlev Present: Kim_Patch JakeAbma Kathy Marc Detlev No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: Kim_Patch Inferring Scribes: Kim_Patch WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Found Date: 13 Jun 2019 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]