<Sharron> Estella: Just joined from Transmedia Catalonia Research group, focused on accessibility, specializing in media.
<Sharron> Scribe: Sharron
Estella: ...details posted to EO mailing list.
All: Quick intros
Brent: Shawn has been working on several aspects of the resoource and I will turn it over to her.
Shawn: Quick history to focus
discussion: We have been looking at how this article should be
organizaed. There are many potentila use cases, scenarios.
Ranging from small org or individual doing podcsting - need to
do their accessibility work in house to slightly larger with a
bit of a budget, to very large orgs with budget possible and
many videos and media content. Must meet all those needs.
... so we previously began with background and planning
considerations. Another approach was to start with definitions
of media accessiibility elements. At the face to face, we got
input that led me to the current organizational
approach...
... fairly limited. Starting with the elements, moves on to
planning, includes examples, and tries to address different
size organziational needs in context. It is still a draft, some
sections are incomplete, needs wordsmithing still, many details
not yet ready for review.
... today we want to look at the overall organization and see
how it is working for everyone Want to stop and see what
questions or concerns you may have about the general
approach.
Laura: I love the format. Much useful information without seeming overwhelming or text heavy.
Sharron: +1
Brent: Do you see the resource having any images, thumbnails, or graphic elements?
Shawn: Yes it will be something
we will look at. In version 2 we had images on the landing
page. Comments noted that they we so samll you caould not
really see what was going on.
... Maybe like the Biz case or Planning and Managing with
concpetual graphics for each of them.
<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say images
Brent: I think they are helpful to support understanding by people who relate more to visual info.
Eric: In general, the organization is good. The images are just a bit too small to be able to know what is going on. But we can move on with the general org from my POV.
<Brent> +1 to this outline and approach.
<krisannekinney> +1
<rjolly> +1
<Lewis> +1
<Howard> +1 I like it
<yatil> +1
Estella: I like the organization, my questions go to the terminolgy. From a European prespective, we use subtitles for both interlingual and monolingual - why is this not used within the section. The differentiation between audio and visual is also not common in my research.
<Brent> Shawn: Thank you for the previous input, I will be working to incorporate that in the future iteration.
<shawn> scribe:shawn
RESOLUTION: EOWG approves this overall organization
<scribe> scribe: brent
<shawn> https://github.com/w3c/wai-media-guide/issues/8
<shawn> audio-visual media
<yatil> audiovisual
<Eoncins> +q audiovisual
<shawn> Estella: audiovisual
<Eoncins> +q audiovisual media
<shawn> scribe: Sharron
Shawn: Not sure who was able to
reveiw the background on the Title. Some use "audio-visual
media"
... in 2017 we did usability testing on the title Media Guide
and found that people were not looking for media, rather
looking for captions. Use at W3C is a bit varied and probably
the most accurate would be audio and video media but it seems
maybe a bit redundant. So titling is a bit complex. Wanted to
ask Estaella, how do you approach something like a podcast that
is only audio?
<yatil> https://www.wordnik.com/words/audiovisual
Estella: In our research area, we would place it in the same umbrella of audio-visual media.
Shawn: Titling is a challenge when we are looking at the global scope of our audience. We want titles to make sense in all countries and would like to open the floor for any ideas about a title for this resource.
KrisAnne: I know you are worried about search terms and findability. Is this the study we did at Visa?
Shawn: Yes and at TPAC.
KrisAnne: What I look for are the
words that people will try to search for - captions, audio
description, etc. As long as those words are tagged for search,
I am less concerned with an overarching title that meet all
needs. Because I don't know that the world will ever agree with
one phrase. I prefer plain language and would like us not to
even think about calling it time-based media.
... subtitles, captions, podcasts, etc - let's think of all the
things people may use to search and be sure they are tagged.
Otherwise media is one of the best overarching words.
<yatil> [ Audiovisual Media – Make Audio and Video accessible ]
Shawn: It is important that it show up in search but then in the lit of things that do show up, the title must make them think this is actually what they are looking for.
Laura: At the library, we have switched the order. I like having audio and video in the title somehow.
Brent: Audiovisual as one word is defined as using both, may be too narrow. Looking up media is maybe too broad.
<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say translations + findability
Brent: I like Making Audio and Video Accessible, but it is tough.
<yatil> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/audiovisual#Translations
Eric: There are a couple of translations of audiovisual in major languages so should not be a problem. I also think it is always both a visual and an audio experience. Audio and Visual
<Laura> ok
Laura: Laura adds that the Library has switched to using the words "audio" and "video" instead of "media" or the outdated word "webcasts"
<shawn_> [ Audiovisual Media – Make Audio and Video accessible ]
<shawn_> [ Audiovisual Media – Making Audio and Video Accessible ]
Howard: The 2 titles I like are "How to Make Audio and Video Accessible" "How to make Audio and Video Media Accessible" but I also liked the "Accessible media Guide"
Brent: When you use the words "how To..." it ets certain expectation and I wonder if this is more of a consideraton guide rather than and real How To. Will it be a walk-through of exactly what to do?
<shawn_> https://deploy-preview-7--wai-media-guide.netlify.com/design-develop/media/captions/
<yatil> What people search for (mostly video accessibility) https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=accessible%20video,accessible%20audio,video%20accessibility,audio%20accessibility
Shawn: The initial answer is Yes, that is the intent. the caveat is that when you look at all the information out there from researchers and commercial providers, we will not provide that level of detailed how to.
<shawn_> WAI Audiovisual Media Guide to Making Audio and Video Accessible
<shawn_> pros and cons?
<shawn_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/
<shawn_> Tutorials Overview • WAI Web Accessibility Tutorials
Shawn: For example in the
tutorials we have WAI in the title.
... even though it is not shown on the page, it is in the title
attribute. So it is a consideration for this resource, I have
no preference at this time and would like to hear pros and cons
if anyone has thoughts about that -- for this, for tutorials,
for curriculum, etc..
<Brent> Pro - Some feel that using WAI gives the resource more authority and quality check.
Howard: It puts alot into a few words "WAI Media Guide" Provides authority, credibilty and in a few words tells you what it is about.
<Laura> +1 to Howard
<Eoncins> + 1 to Howard
<krisannekinney> +1 to Howard
<Brent> Pro - If people are not familiar with "WAI" and see it in the title, they may want to learn more about WAI and inadvertantly learn more about accessibility.
<rjolly> Do we know if WAI is recognized generally outside of the accessibility field
<rjolly> ?
<rjolly> I am intrigued by Brent's "Pro" statement there.
Eric: I do not think most people know what WAI is, even those that do will not be especially swayed. It ets precedent for naming other resources. I feel quite strongly that it is not a good idea and not especially useful.
<krisannekinney> opportunity for increasing our outreach.
<shawn_> Sharron: Agree with Eric that probably not useful for branding. But thought about Howard's point - people who do know, people have sense of credibility .... We wouldn't have to call everything "WAI". Awareness of WAI is growing. Trust. Neutral - benefit. Also distinguish it from companies.
Eric: Nothing prevents us from claiming it as "WAI's Media Guide" but putting it in the title is unecessary and puts the organization before the useful materials.
<rjolly> +1 to Krisannekinney on her point about not expecting it to be searched for initially (WAI)
KrisAnne: I agree with Eric that no one will search for WAI in their search but as it shows up, with WAI in the title, it provides assurance of credibility and will give people confidence that it is authroitative, neutral and will be a great resource. The more we put our name on things, the more it builds awareness of our work.
<yatil> Search for "WAI Policies" --> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=WAI+Policies&t=osx&ia=web
Laura: I agree. Maybe our brand outside accessibility is not strong but we should consider do we not want to start building the brand as people become aware of the need for accessiiblity. Developers are no longer as resistant, things have changes, now may be a good time to build our brand.
<Eoncins> I agree, maybe at this moment nobody will search for WAI but it provides credibility and people awared about accessibility will look for it. It is also good for dissemination reasons.
<yatil> Search for "WAI Evaluation Tools" --> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=WAI+Evaluation+Tools&t=osx&ia=web
Estella: Good for many reasons to have the WAI in the title, it is becoming more widely known at least in Europe with the directives, it is starting to have more importance.
<shawn> A few things to keep in mind:
<shawn> * This page is on the W3C WAI website which gives it some context (especially for the navigation short version).
<shawn> * The full title hopefully will be referred to in places that might not include that context.
Brent: WAI provides a quality check, the WG has global persepctive. Seeing it in the title may bring people into the site and solidify WAI as an authoritative, reliable source. Not sure I actually like WAI in the title but am now leaning that way.
Shawn: While yes, it lives on the WAI site and that already gives it that status, it is not the only way people will see it. It may also be referred to or adding a link in other places or find the title in the search results. Also, using WAI in the title of some resources does not necessitate using it all of them.
Sharron: +1
Shawn: [with staff & editor hat off now] I am still on the fence about this. Agree that for anyone who knows WAI, it gives credibility, authority (and also communicates
<yatil> “WAI Web Accessibility Curriculum” -> “Web Accessibility Initiative Web Accessibility Curriculum”
<rjolly> echo
Shawn: Will process these comments and come up with a short list for people to further consider.
Brent: We have movement on the curriculm work from Daniel,will likely review it next week. Will put out a prep survey early next week to help get folks prepared for a full discussion at Friday's meeting.
Shawn: Being reworked based on feedback from the F2F.
Brent: The planning for the
videos has proceeded, now have a clear outline and that will be
presented to the group in June.
... will begin bringing related items to the group for renewed
consideration.
... wanting everyone to review the material before the meeting
and will post a survey to guide your review. Thanks.
<shawn> "accessibility"). For those who do not know WAI, I do not think it distracts. I have some hesitation, but I can't figure out what it is.
Brent: Please stay in touch with the posted work and take the surveys. Any questions?
Estella: Are we talking only about recorded video in the resource or do we include live as well?
Shawn: We reference live video but do not provide much detail about how to make it accessible. Most of the focus is on pre-recorded but we do intend to provide some guidance as well.
Brent: Any more comments or thoughts about what we discussed today please send to editor's list or directly to Shawn
trackbot, end meeting
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