W3C

Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference

30 May 2019

Attendees

Present
MaryJo, Trevor, Wilco, Alistair, Anne, Shadi
Regrets

Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Trevor

Contents


Update from AG, publishing rules

wilco: Had a meeting with AG on tuesday and presented what we said about our process for publishing ACT rules
... Not a lot of discussion. Main takeaway was that they want to be involved fairly soon.
... Beyond that, people seemed pretty okay about what he had put together.
... Next step is AG will take a survey to see if there is any further feedback or if we can continue to see if any of these rules should be published.

shadi: What they implied, is that they are the opportunity to draft out the process a bit more. I think there is a lean towards a task force that takes care of the tasks we described
... Then only the approvals go to the AG
... There may be a chance we could publish a first set of rules around october.

wilco: There was a brief discussion about needing a charter. We may or may not want ACT rules mentioned specifically in the charter.

shadi: They are going to decide what to put in the charter document. But it will show we are looking to have such a group.

Editorial updates #356

<Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/356

wilco: There were a bunch of editorials from carlos. I don't think there is much that needs a lot of discussion.
... I am ready to just accept it and make the changes.
... We will make those changes.

Optional items under MUST keyword #357

<Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/357

trevor: I think he wanted a bit more logical seperation, instead of having a optional items under the MUST.

wilco: I like the suggestion.
... will make that change

"Unique identifier" scope #358

<Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/358

wilco: The main issue is the scope of the unique identifier is not defined. This is something I was considering as part of the ACT-R community group rules.
... Should the rules between different organizations have similar identifiers.

alistair: what we could do, I wonder if it is just part of the ACT TF to make sure it has a unique id when it is put in the process to be accepted by the W3C

wilco: We used a random assortment of letters and numbers to almost guarantee uniqueness.
... The question is more about where is it unique

alistair: Yes, it has to be unique within its test suite.

wilco: Unique within a set of rules?

anne: One question is what if in our organization we write a rule and have it published through w3c, should the identified hold through all of those places.

wilco: I think so

anne: Then it can't be a url

wilco: The reason to have a unique identifier is that as the rule changes the identifier will stay the same.
... We could take out the unique bit? Can we take that out?

anne: So we still need it to be unique, just have to define in which context.

shadi: Removing might indeed raise some questions. I think that providing a definition for unique and perhaps highlighting some examples
... Unique within ACT-R, within an organization, or W3C, but not universally unique.

wilco: We cannot remove unique, so we need to redefine it. I will look into and come up with a proposal.

Expectations for Composite Rules #359

<maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/359

wilco: Not sure if that is true, not sure if I know an example either way

agarrison: There is a confusion between expectation and there being multiple of them and outcomes

wilco: In theory, you can write everything in one expectation.

anne: If we allow multiple expectations of atomic rules then I think the same should be true for composite rules

wilco: Alright, so the proposal on the table is to not make this change. We will keep it that there can be multiple expectations

anne: We should see if there is anything that suggests we only have one expectation

agarrison: I think most people would see it as expecting. I think there is some confusion between expectation and outcomes

anne: I don't think carlos has that confusion.

agarrison: With my software hat you wouldn't want to expectations within a unit test

wilco: I will reach out to carlos for some more details.

agarrison: Its just bad practice, it isn't illegal.

Rule's date and version number #360

<Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/360

wilco: its true it is not part of the rule structure.
... Its a bit of an oddly placed requirement under changelog
... The way we were going to do this in ACT-R, we were gonna have some identifier in the changelog section that identifies that version.

shadi: Could we move that into the rule charter section

wilco: That still doessn't say where to put it in the rule structure.

shadi: Can we put it in a separate paragraph after it must be accessible, that it must also have a date and version number

anne: Wouldn't it make more sense to have a list

wilco: Yes, I think that is what he is implying

anne: I think it is interesting there is no date on the ACT-R rules

shadi: Could it be a sub section of the identifier.
... I am trying to avoid making such a prominent change.

agarrison: It could be in the identifier, or we could just put it in the EARL example.

wilco: I like the idea about having it in the identifier. The EARL is non-normative
... We are updating the identifier anyways

agarrison: Pretty much happy with it, want to make sure it does not become included in the identifier

wilco: I can do that, not a big deal

Reference to specific vendor #361

<Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/361

wilco: So one of our examples references the Vue components. I thought that would be fine, I don't know if its something we should be avoiding.
... Do we need to make it vendor agnostic

shadi: Yeah we should. For vendor neutrality, but also for longevity, because in a year or two it may not exist or be widely used anymore

wilco: I think we could just say something like a web component.
... Making the change to web component.

Examples 3 and 4 in Appendix 1 are identical #362

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/TR/act-rules-format/#appendix-data-example

wilco: I think someone will need to go and fix it.

shadi: Next week I am pretty full, but I will try to get to it. Assign it to me so I don't forget.

Feedback Lisa Louise Davis #363

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/TR/act-rules-format/#input-aspects

*Looking at Input Aspects*

wilco: This is a hard section that is kind of unique.
... maryjom, would you be willing to take a look and see if we can clear up the language a little bit.

anne: I am thinking that when I look at the example it is clear. Perhaps moving the examples up a bit and having the details underneath them

wilco: We could definitely do that
... Going to assign this to maryjom and label as editorial.

<Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/364

CR Feedback Fernanda Bonnin #364

wilco: We pushed this down to a note as a "If you really want to you can do this", does this warrant more of an explanation. Because right now it is pretty minimal

<Wilco> https://www.w3.org/TR/act-rules-format/#expectations-atomic

wilco: We might be able to add a sentence to clarify

anne: I think we are missing context here. If we mention silver here and what it might be used for. But not a great idea since we are not sure where silver will end.

wilco: I don't know of any other comparable situations.

anne: We could say something about accommodating future standards or something like that.

shadi: Maybe use something like future guidelines, but don't mention silver specifically.

wilco: Let me take this one on then.

*Viewing second bullet point of issue*

wilco: I am not sure where something like that would fit in the document. Is there anything we could link out to for automated and manual testing.

anne: I think at least semi-automated is a term noone seems to understand.

wilco: Yeah its a term we are intentionally avoiding. We are using the term guided-testing

shadi: Should we remove it? I usually say automated tools or manual testing methodologies.

wilco: Semi-automated is also not in the intro. It is in the abstract.

shadi: This is all considered editorial so we can make the change.

wilco: We can just take it out

anne: It is wierd that it is in the abstract, but not in the document.

wilco: Assigning to myself and shadi

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
$Date: 2019/06/03 05:06:05 $