Working Group Note on CAPTCHA: Status of CfC, and any other issues.

<Joshue108> scribe: Joshue108

<janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2019May/0000.html

JW: This is mostly Janinas but - there is a CFC issued recently around publishing next wide review draft.

Its got a lot of positive endorsements, so that looks likely to go thru.

Anything to add?

JS: Yes, 48 hours is policy minimum and we try to do more.

Open till midnight Boston time Thurs.

It's mostly positive, I've made many edits.

I've informed our other APA TFs and this became a conversation in COGA on paper contents, they were substantive.

So there are comments that we will need to deal with..

I've forwarded a message from Steve Lee and Lisa.

I've responded, but think they are wrong.

Asked for specifics.

SH: I have also responded, I agree with you.

There are several references to COGA disabilities but don't think we should cross reference e'thing to each disability type.

There are currently ~ 7 refs.

JS: Thank you.

I will be on a call with them tomorrow.

Not only have we referenced here but have been specific.

If we can add groupings to iterated lists we can do this, but don't want to make generalisations around CAPTCHA being problematic for group x.

This is a problem solving paper.

SH: There is no specific request or comment - rather broad overview.
... I've also looked at other disability types and feel it is balanced.

JS: We are in sync.

JW: I concur.

JS: I've one more issue, I think 2.6.1 is in the wrong place, Limited Accounts.

Its in Interactive, stand alone. I think its not interactive routine, think it should be moved.

JW: Agreed, will look at it.

JS: Should go below Honey Pots etc.

I'll do it in editors draft.

We've also gotten good wide review from our security privacy call.

Thats added a section on Dual Factor, SMS, Voicecall etc.

Some small edits, to be continued and Scotts language on video games.

<laughs>

<scott_h> great work on the edits Janina!

David Singer just said Wow :-)

Some small tweaks..

Judy is helping us simplify the language to help with translation.

Logic puzzle section has been rewritten substantially..

There may be disagreement, but we have been careful about this..

We've discussed login vs Turing tests..

We are careful to delineate that.

We also provide legal references and appreciate more specific feedback.

JW: Anything else?

JS: Just figure out placement for 2.6.1

JW: If you haven't responded you have a couple of days but please do so.
... I propose to look at Joshs WebRTC doc.

JS: I will scibe

<janina> scribe: janina

WebRTC: Accessibility-related Use Cases and Implications.

jgw: Suggest reviewing top to bottom

<jasonjgw> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebRTC_next_version_use_cases

jo: wfm

jgw: OK, let me walk us throught it ...

jo: User needs and scenarios, Identify caller

jgw: CID
... Protocol that sets up the connection, not actually WebRTC

<Joshue108> JS: Not sure what they rely on but there is a call control spec that came out of the VoiceML group.

<Joshue108> JS: Telephony is broken down by respobibility. SIP and others.

js: Notes there is a Call Control spec from the old VoiceXML WG

jgw: Could be SIP, as specified in WebRTC

<Joshue108> Identity for WebRTC 1.0

<Joshue108> https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-identity/identity.html

jo: Identity for web RTC may be handling it

jgw: We need an overview chart

js: An a11y SVG?

jgw: would be useful

jo: Note that some are marked as at risk
... Potentially to be handled by some other spec

jgw: Not fully up to speed on all the various handlers -- Probably enough to note that for now

jo: Most important right now to identify what our a11y use cases are. Locating the work can come later

jgw: Need to interoperate with AT is critical

<Joshue108> JS: Do we have a path for called ID data on Braile display?

js: Do we have a smooth path to get CID up on a braille display?

<Joshue108> JW: Thats a question - some may.

<Joshue108> JS: But that may interupt the user, flashing CID etc..

<Joshue108> JW: Thats the issue with notifications.

<Joshue108> JOC: Could also be set as a user preference.

<Joshue108> +1 to Janina

<Joshue108> JW: We need a way to hit all users devices without going offline.

js: Suggest it's user configuration to determine am I on line and available? Or off line?
... Also, all user devices should get that config choice en masse, not requiring the user to set them one by one

jo: Anything to be identified in WebRTC for this?

jgw: Don't believe so at this time--but probably some other spec

jo: OK, will need to research where this would go
... Noting this is a new req submitted by Steve Lee

jgw: Next, multiple audio ...
... Directing the WebRTC to the correct device is important

jo: Don't know that this is well supported in browsers
... Think it's OS dependent, and should be relatively easy to do

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/audio-output/

jo: This is differentiating different audio sources for different devices within a browser

jgw: That's more than we've had in the past

<Joshue108> JS: In FF if you are not using Pulse audio you've got nothing.

<Joshue108> JS: I think the ICT world is glib about audio..

<Joshue108> JS: Pros know highend users may have at least two monitors but ignore multiple audio devices.

<Joshue108> JS: There is a presumption that we need to get people past.

js: Notes that there's a presumption to a single audio device, where there isn't for video monitors

jo: Notes how a DAW permits fine control of this
... Will need to look at the audio api for this, Dom seems certain it's handled there

jgw: Next, control of alternate content
... Involves both audio and video, includes captions, other langs, etc
... We need sign translation handled as a second video path, etc

<Joshue108> JS: This is a parallel to the MAUR.

<Joshue108> JS: We made sure HTML was covering this, it is supported in the spec but really tested.

<Joshue108> JS: WebRTC UI will need a status bar to show users not on audio are plugged into English or French sign language.

js: Notes that multiple sign language translations will need multiple video device support

jgw: Next, accessible call setup

js: Support for selecting, adding participants, removing participats, from a contacts list

<Joshue108> Accessible Call Set up

<Joshue108> The first part looks like UI.

jgw: Don't recall how well this might work, probably relies on server support

<Joshue108> The second lower level protocols.

jgw: Raises the notion that mixed output provided by a central server would frustrate the ability to uniquely handle separate streams
... We may need authoring guidance on how to support a11y in WebRTC
... What can be mixed, what should be provided separately for local management
... Believe it's all achievable now
... Very nice to see use cases already handled!

<Joshue108> Text communication data channel

<Joshue108> JS: This is a big one.

<Joshue108> We need a constant stream. They have thought of the IM case but there is the FCC support for RTT.

<Joshue108> As distinct from IRC - you will see characters as they type.

<Joshue108> Diff between write and talk on cmd line.

jgw: So we need to know whether a RTT scenario is supportable in WebRTC?
... Because there is a legal mandate for RTT in the U.S.
... Being very clear that RTT means char by char, not at line break as with IRC though we also need IRC line break functionality

<Joshue108> JOC: WebRTC will need to support RTT.

[group underlines importance of getting RTT properly supported]

<Joshue108> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7478

<Joshue108> ACTION: Joshue108 to look at WebRTC and RTT examples

<trackbot> Error finding 'Joshue108'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>.

<Joshue108> +1 to June 5th.

<Joshue108> I'll be there.

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Default Present: jasonjgw, janina, Joshue, scott_h, SteveNoble, MichaelC
Present: jasonjgw janina Joshue scott_h SteveNoble MichaelC Joshue108
Regrets: Judy
Found Scribe: Joshue108
Inferring ScribeNick: Joshue108
Found Scribe: janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina
Scribes: Joshue108, janina
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Found Date: 22 May 2019
People with action items: joshue108

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