<joanie> agenda: this
<joanie> agenda: be done
<scribe> scribe: melanierichards
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/46
joanie: asking vendors for input, blocked on that. I've already triaged as 1.2
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/979
joanie: clarifying the use of tooltip, if no one is doing the right thing with it, that seems like a problem
mck: at this point not super
actionable, I don't think anyone has a clear idea of the
utility of the role. We've had this discussion multiple times
in ARIA Practices, I've even said get rid of it (might be
draconian). Purpose of the thread is, if ATs were going to do
something with it, what would it be? That's why not super
actionable yet
... I'll add to the convo
... may add some editorial notes on use of the role in
Practices, where I see this going
<dbass> when is it needed? when should it be used? should we be using something else instead?
carmacleod_: like Matt, not sure where it's going. I wanted to make our use case known. For the sighted user we don't bring up tooltips on focus, only on hover...[cut out audio]...it would be nice if AT or UAs would say "there's a tooltip here". If they're on demand, nice to know that you can ask for them.
joanie: I have triaged as 1.3 since it's not role parity
<dbass> alt? title?
<dbass> title work on all browsers and no use for tooltip?
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/978
joanie: Undefined behavior for
Element and FrozenArray<Element> reflecting IDL
attributes
... AOM people have been contributing IDL reflection, if
there's problems with it I think we need to fix it. Putting it
on 1.2
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/977
[murmurs of agreement]
joanie: #977, this isn't triage, this is editorial
carmacleod_: it looks old, agree
with removing it!
... we could ask Simon to do a PR
mck: he may not have strong feelings even if raised the PR
joanie: I can rip it out
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/976
joanie: aria-atomic doesn't say
what its missing/invalid value defaults are
... that's something we're working on in general now. 1.2?
carmacleod_: yes
mck: if it's in the prose but not in the table that's a problem and easy to fix
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/975
Consider adding "restricted owned elements" definition/role characteristics
carmacleod_: it's a large amount
of work, I think. And probably not required for 1.2
... it could go to 1.3 I think because it means adding a new
category in the attr table for every role
mck: there's this thought I had
of should required mean restricted? But that's something we
should explore carefully
... say tabs in a tablist. Sometimes people want to put buttons
in a tablist, sometimes not focusable. It's just a mouse target
for context actions for the tab. But if you said tabs are are
required own el and that means it's the ONLY kind of element
that can be in tablist, we might run into problems
... I think this is a weakness in the spec, we've been unclear
about what Required Owned Elements means
... I agree this is not a trivial issue
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/971
joanie: has anyone had a chance to review?
[nos]
joanie: asking people to review for next time
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/2019/09/TPAC/
joanie: registration is open,
that page includes the link
... it's earlier this year, in September
... our actual meetings will be earlier this time around, on
Mon and Tues
... the hotels seem to fill up quickly, so start registering
yesterday
joanie: if you look at parity in progress, we all have stuff to do. For the most part, I've added everything in Core-AAM. I'll do implementations and write the WPT test suites next week. But we need authoring practices for all the roles that are in there
[referring to content under "Parity in Progress" header]
mck: we have code for meter, sub
and super going to be easy, pretty sure we don't want people to
use those. I don't know about deletions and insertions
... label is in progress right now. I feel good about label,
meter, sub, and super. Not sure about insert, delete.
... code is another easy one
... what's our goal, timewise?
joanie: we already missed it, we
wanted to freeze on the 13th
... Soon? If possible?
mck: thinking realistically about APG stuff...the next 2 weeks are pretty nuts. Could we aim for the first week of June?
[scribe note: attribute "Could we aim for the first week of June?" to joanie]
mck: label might be June 11th.
We're making progress but the section it's going in is a
monolith, all that other stuff needs to be in good shape before
I merge
... we didn't have anything about naming or describing the APG
prior to this
carmacleod_: what are next steps for generic role?
mck: I thought we were going to reduce aria-textseparation to just "style" and "none"
joanie: I thought we wanted to separate textseparation from the generic role, even though that role would want to have it. We can land generic role without textseparation
carmacleod_: that I can do
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/141
joanie: other thing we're blocked
on without mappings is insert and delete. We want to do what
HTML does if possible
... will need Melanie's review
melanierichards: will do
mck: is there a good reason to use these roles on spans?
joanie: would have to defer to those with authoring expertise
mck: with paragraph I was
comfortable saying you should never use this (turning divs into
paragraphs)
... insertion and deletion, I have no idea what's
justifiable
joanie: I think Aaron was interested in it for G Docs etc and had valid use cases
mck: might ask Google for help with the examples
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/950
carmacleod_: I pinged James Craig
about this one
... maybe give him a few more days
joanie: it's fine to me but I
wasn't that confused by the text before
... the only thing that felt confusing was something that you
didn't actually change
... if text nodes means text leaf node, there's only one UA
that exposes those and I'd like them to stop doing those
carmacleod_: I don't know if it's an actual leaf or an element with the text in it
joanie: right now not in Gecko or
Webkit GTK tree
... if we have a statement that says UAs must include something
they're not including, that would be a bigger problem. Better
to just phrase the bullets a different way
... I'll go ahead and comment on it even though it wasn't what
you set out to do, I think clarity around what text nodes mean
in that case is useful.
... it's not a MUST, there's some platforms...
melanierichards: might want to just defer to next week, I haven't been able to re-review these in the past week or so
mck: they're probably straight forward
carmacleod_: could send the links to the group after you've reviewed those comments, so that people review
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/946
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/971
joanie: if people could review and comment on 971, that would be great
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Present: Joanmarie_Diggs carmacleod Irfan melanierichards carmacleod_ Matt-King Regrets: James_Nurthen Mark_McCarthy Harris_Schneiderman Curt_Bellew Jon_Gunderson Peter_Krautzberger Scott_OHara Found Scribe: melanierichards Inferring ScribeNick: melanierichards Found Date: 16 May 2019 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]