Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

08 May 2019


jasonjgw, Matthew_Atkinson, SteveNoble, janina, scott_h, Judy, MichaelC


<Matthew_Atkinson> Hi all. It's Matthew (working on the games position paper). My W3C account won't let me access the joining info for the RQTF call; have emailed jason about this; if you're able to reply with the dial-in details that'd be great, thanks :-).

Draft note on CAPTCHA - open issues.

jgw: Recalling actions from last week ...
... Janina has added Sec. 3.3 on blinded verifications just today


jgw: I added content clarifying user credential concerns in section on noninteractive
... Believe most issues resolved

<Matthew_Atkinson> Hi again all and sorry for the interruption (not sure if you got my previous message in here): it's Matthew (I am working on the games position paper) - I'm not able to access joining info for the RQTF call; please could you email me the details?

<jasonjgw> Janina: editorial issues will be addressed. Janina agrees that we are close to finished in the preparation of this draft. Changes are expected to section 3.3. Janina coined the phrase "Turing tokens" to characterize the technique in the Privacy Pass paper.

<jasonjgw> Janina will pursue the horizontal review requests (privacy/security), as the substance of the note is now in place. The revisions to the concluding section remain to be completed. We need another week of review before APA receives the draft.

<jasonjgw> There will follow another call for wide review.

<Matthew_Atkinson> Thanks Judy, I am in.

<jasonjgw> Judy cautions that newly introduced terminology needs to be used carefully, bearing in mind readers who are not approaching the Note with technical background knowledge of Turing tests.

<jasonjgw> Janina urges the Task Force to review section 3.3.

<jasonjgw> Scott will comment in the next few days.

Draft position paper on Web Games.

<scribe> scribe: janina

jgw: Welcomes Matthew who has created the Web Games Accessibility draft


jb: Appreciates the draft and has a few comments ...
... Will also followup in email
... Nice to see comprehensive issues exploration

<jasonjgw> Judy: notes the relatively comprehensive coverage of issues related to the accessibility of web games.

jb: Concerned about some of the phrasing may give the wrong impression

ma: Perhaps a rephrase?

<jasonjgw> Matthew suggests clarifying the observation in the paper that some elmeent of challenge is required (in games).

<jasonjgw> Judy considers the intended audience to be the gaming community - appropriate for this position paper. In some sections, there is assumed background knowledge of accessibility that should be filled in for the intended audience.

<jasonjgw> Judy notes the transition of games from a native application environment to an HTML 5/web-based environment.

<jasonjgw> Judy suggests cross-references in the discussion to related work - specifically, Media Accessibility User Requirements (MAUR).

<jasonjgw> Matthew has been reviewing MAUR and considers it useful to consider during the [game] design stage.

fast: http://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/checklist

<Matthew_Atkinson> This may complement http://gameaccessibilityguidelines.com/ well.

maur: http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/

<jasonjgw> Judy notes the role of the FAST (Framework for Accessible Specification of Technologies) in a dialogue regarding the development of technical specifications.

<Judy> https://w3c.github.io/apa/fast/

<jasonjgw> Matthew raises the question (discussed on list) of the role of ARIA, and the challenges inherent in developing a large and extensible ontology to describe game-based interactions.

<jasonjgw> He also notes the experiential and affective elements of games, which do not necessitate as precise a representation of information as may otherwise be needed in other applications.

<jasonjgw> Michael: suggests there is room for improving the FAST, and to some extent the FAST may not be the appropriate tool for solving the problems (e.g., where user interface expertise from the gaming community is necessary to provide guidance). The ARIA agenda are occupied for the next few years; there's the possibility of additional modules being intorduced into ARIA, but we should explore the range of

<jasonjgw> technical possibilities before settling on a solution.

<jasonjgw> Matthew: notes the challenges arising from the affective element of game play. We need to create a bridge between what we have now and the game, enabling users of assistive technology to be supported by game engines.

<jasonjgw> Michael: suggests there's scope for a gaming version of the MAUR document.

<Judy> [Judy: "GAUR" --> Games Accessibility User Requirements]

<Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask how much description of visuals helps play a game you can't see

<jasonjgw> Janina: there's a risk of overwhelming the user with accessibility information in circumstances under which time is of the essence. Even if time is not an essential element, users need to be presented only with the relevant information - not overloaded with additional details tangential to the activity.

<jasonjgw> Matthew suggests adding references to FAST, MAUR, and game accessibility guidelines.

<scribe> scribe: janina

jgw: Wonders about accessible input devices, recent Microsoft device is of interest
... To be used as an alternate input device
... Does that require device level support?
... Or does it simply emmulate what most folks use?

ma: Unsure, actually. This questions was asked on list
... Certainly something to follow up
... Expect it's probably emmulating, but need to find out
... For now I can only leave the question in the paper

jgw: Would be help clarifying in the draft, because I was unsure after reading yesterday
... Also a tradeoff between privacy and good support if it's not just emmulating

ma: Agree with raising the issue. I'm familiar with how this can go horribly wrong
... e.g. just because a screen reader is present it should not be assumed the user is blind and the u-i adjusted accordingly

sn: Have worked with PBS kids (U.S. TV network)
... They create a lot of web games that go with their various children's shows
... We had a Federal study grant on these
... Previously, the games where based in flash, now changed to spring role which can do html5
... Thought not full html5 support
... Always some limitation of what can be achieved, yet we had some good results
... e.g. we had a game that could be played with only 4 keys, so could support switch access
... Sometimes were unable to get braille displays supported, so no deaf-blind support
... Were also able to accomodate various audio streams, individually modifiable
... Dropping background music might be useful for low hearing support
... Also noted basics could enhance playability, no AT, but change text size, font, etc
... Contrast adjustment in OS would be picked up
... These were games designed for younger children, not vr immersive kinds of games

ma: A[ppreciate hearing about what's already possible. That's very important

sn: Self-voicing was often the decision to use the actors from the source TV show

jgw: One of the more interesting presentations I attended indeed

<jasonjgw> Janina notes an intersection with the discussion of the use of different sound sources in the MAUR, which contemplates these capabilities.

<jasonjgw> Janina: a separate audio mix (referred to by the BBC as "clean audio" that removes extraneous background sounds) facilitates comprehension by people with hearing-related disabilities.

<jasonjgw> Janina underscores the connection with issues that the MAUR covers.

<Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask about audio stream control

jgw: Asks Matthew to feel free to ask for anymore from this group.

sh: Have found high contrast settings really helpful
... Thanks MA for the great work!

ma: Notes had not been following rqtf list, but now have that feedback and will integrate

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to check on timeline

mc: Are we ontrack to submit paper Friday?

ma: Yes

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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Default Present: jasonjgw, Matthew_Atkinson, SteveNoble, janina, scott_h, Judy, MichaelC
Present: jasonjgw Matthew_Atkinson SteveNoble janina scott_h Judy MichaelC
Found Scribe: janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina
Found Scribe: janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina
Found Date: 08 May 2019
People with action items: 

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