<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/Options-for-symbol

<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: becky\

<Becka11y> scribe: becka11y

<LisaSeemanKest> scribe: becky

<Thaddeus> +present

should we pulish a new WD

<Becka11y> Lisa: many people can’t make it next week so we will cancel the call on May 13. Next meeting will be May 20

<Becka11y> Lisa: we will publish a new WD with examples of the new implementation in next week or two; will use the list for that process

<Becka11y> Lisa: still need to work on symbols and simplification

<Becka11y> Lisa: we have Ori on call who has worked on some previous implementations; can provide more info on symbols

demo (If Ori can make it)

<Becka11y> Ori: (sharing screen to discuss examples)

<Becka11y> Lisa: describing page - Wiki how to page on how to make tea; good for assistive living situations or someone who needs reminder / help to make tea

<Becka11y> Ori: using an extension to add additional symbols; logged into an account and profile for bliss symbols

<Becka11y> Ori: page now shows images from Bliss that replace some words

<Becka11y> Lisa: not every word replaced with a symbol - just the basics

<Becka11y> JF question - is transformation happening on the server?

<LisaSeemanKest> araasac

<Becka11y> Ori: yes, (loads another provide from another symbol set: arasaac

<stevelee> http://www.arasaac.org/imagenes.php

<janina> Regret I still have no audio ... Want to suggest ...

<Becka11y> Lisa: we looked at the same page but the symbols are different (but same words/phrases were substituted)

<janina> This tech would benefit from A-I that has made spoken interfaces so much more intelligent in the recent years

<Becka11y> Ori: once marked with Bliss I can map to other symbol libraries

<janina> e.g. las week's "can" (container) vs. "can" (able to)

<Thaddeus> j

<Becka11y> Charles: Why doesn’t the symbol for water used in the first paragraph show up for water in the third paragraph

<Becka11y> Ori: it would but I didn’t mark up all occurences of water

<Becka11y> JF: asks for view of markup - Ori opens inspect

<Becka11y> Ori: code is marked up with aui-symbol with the bliss reference on each word or that could be substituted; plugin uses bliss symbol to xfer to other symbol sets

<Becka11y> JF: so each item needs to be marked up - thus, this doesn’t scale

<Becka11y> Charles: asks for comparison of marked up code and original code

<Becka11y> JF: how long would it take to mark up a paragraph of 30 words? What about 3 paragraphs of content you haven’t seen

<Becka11y> Ori: for 1 paragraph probably about 2-3 minutes; for words that I know it takes 10 seconds or so; but words I don’t know could tak a minute or so per word

<Becka11y> Lisa: with arasaac symbols I can look quickly to see if it looks correct

<Becka11y> Lisa: some of the AI solutions make mistakes and that can be difficult for people with cognitive disabilities; important that if using an automated tool, someone needs to check that correct symbols are used

<Becka11y> Charles: How does the page with replaced symbols work with a screen reader? Will the underlying text be spoken?

<Becka11y> Lisa: no probably not, since this is personalization it would be replaced;

<Becka11y> Charles: but this could be an issue for people with low vision who also use a screen reader

<Becka11y> JF: can use CSS to layer so can get both

<Becka11y> JF: my biggest concern that this doesn’t scale - too difficult to mark up

<Becka11y> Charles: how does it go from bliss symbol to another set - arasaac in this example

<Becka11y> Ori: describes how database is used to perform the substitutions

<Zakim> janina, you wanted to say this is very similar to auto translation, like Google Translate

<Becka11y> Janina: we are reaching for automated which will lead to scale at some point; example: google translate improvements over the time

<Becka11y> Lisa: agree that there will be movement to machine learning

<Becka11y> JF: appears that right now I have to add the symbol for each word I want mapped; With so many symbols (it appears over 17k) how is it possible to accomplish this? The proof of concept is cool but need to understand how we get from manual editing to machine learning?

<LisaSeemanKest> janinna we lost you

<janina> Argh, I think I lost audio again ...

<janina> Wondering whether the db can support more semantic data, e.g. water as noun plus water as verb

<LisaSeemanKest> janina want to type your question

<Becka11y> Lisa: editing would be much easier than implementing

<Becka11y> Janina: Wondering whether the db can support more semantic data, e.g. water as noun plus water as verb

<LisaSeemanKest> we definity can add it

<Becka11y> Ori: yes symbol sets have multiple images for water, so yes

<Becka11y> JF: but at this point the author has to select the correct symbol for the context

<Becka11y> Ori: yes, this still needs to be implemented

<JF> OK, but the selection of an image (today) is left to the author, and not captured as a data-point in the data-base

<Becka11y> Ori: this is a page that uses destination; this page is updated by adding a tooltip; images only show when I hover over the word

<Becka11y> Lisa: this example is using destination and some simplification; there is less text on the page; the profile is used to determine how the changes are made and presented

<Becka11y> Lisa: so could be replacing the text or changing the text; advantage of the toolkit is that it doesn’t totally change the look of the site but rather augments it

<Becka11y> Charles: that example is for menu items, can the same popup occur when you hover over just text within the document?

<Becka11y> Ori: it can be used for words in the paragraph but they have to be wrapped into their own element to identify them

<Becka11y> Ori: profile lets you determine the replacement type - replace or augmented with tool tip

<Becka11y> Ori: viewing website to edit the profile

<Becka11y> Ori: can pick the symbol insertion type or the image/symbol used

<Becka11y> Lisa: interface to edit the profile has different values under aui-destination, etc; You can select what text and symbol is for that text item and how you want it displayed - symbol or popup, etc

<Becka11y> Janina: believe google translate got feedback by asking for user input and corrections; over time translations got better; we need to provide a mechanism for using this type of crowd sourcing for improving the substitutions

<Becka11y> Lisa: would be good for content owners (assistive living system that uses the system) to have a text file to provide substitutions quickly/easily

<Becka11y> Ori: selects a different profile for the previous example and demonstates that a different symbol is used

<Becka11y> Lisa: Thanks Ori for joining us.

<Becka11y> Lisa: would like to talk about the wiki page for different options

<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/Options-for-symbol

symbol, - talking around the pluses and minuses of using bliss, the bliss refrences number, or mapping to a term

<LisaSeemanKest> https://github.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/wiki/Options-for-symbol

<Becka11y> JF: I’m still concerned about “picking a winner” so concerned about using Bliss even though it is widely used; Need to make sure our markup technology is agnostic wrt symbol sets

<Becka11y> JF: concern is that we don’t want to be linking to a particular symbol set; believe we need a master reference set that the symbol sets map onto

<Becka11y> Charles: but we don’t want to be the keepers of this master symbol set, hopefully there is an open source option

<Becka11y> Janina: W3C must be vendor neutral

<Becka11y> SL: isn’t that what the concept coding framework is for? mapping from word (water) to symbol set in the user’s profile

<Becka11y> Lisa: others have tried to use wordnet but it had issues - is English language centric; so wiki page is trying to come up with different options

<LisaSeemanKest> <img symbol="001" href="mysymb.bmp">

<Becka11y> Lisa: option 1 is using Bliss but realize that is not vendor neutral; option 2 uses a symbol number that maps to a bliss symbol;

<Becka11y> Lisa: option 3 -performs a different mapping;

<Becka11y> Lisa: Bliss has a process for proposing a new symbol; review these every 3 months;

<Becka11y> Charles: in wiki examples, href is symbol.bmp - I would expect the href would get added as part of the process to replace with the appropriate symbol

<Zakim> janina, you wanted to say good news and bad news here

<Becka11y> Janina: average human vocabulary is about 5k words for the average adult (found via google search)

<Becka11y> JF: perhaps we can use the Bliss symbol number as the path forward

<Becka11y> Janina: we have to check the license

<Becka11y> Lisa: please look at the options; happy to have people propose better ones

<Thaddeus> thank you

<CharlesL> trackbot, end meeting

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