W3C

- Minutes -
Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
- Easy Checks small group (2 meetings)

02 Apr 2019

Pacific Summary

Several people noted that they frequently point people to Easy Checks; it is easy and useful; and would be good for us to update it. Noted that many people still have only IE, e.g., in government; thus, we should keep IE WAT instructions. Even though WAT is not being updated, it still works fine. (However, some people think they need to download IE to do the checks.) Any tool we include needs to be easy to use and the results easy to understand.

Europe Summary

Participant goals centered around making it seem updated, making it easier, and sticking to the basics. There was general agreement to do a phased approach to get updates in soon, and plan for longer-term improvements. A different approach to the content was discussed: to provide bookmarklets for the checks, instead of instructions for other tools. Some supported that idea now; some want more information. Sharron took the task of investigating and documenting potential issues, pros, cons. We also discussed having a concrete example (such as page title) to help with evaluating the approach. The group supported bringing this idea to all of EOWG this week to get initial input.

Contents


Pacific Meeting

Pacific Attendees

Present
Sharron, Shawn, Bri, Andrew, Amanda
Chair
Sharron
Scribe
Shawn

<Andrew> Hi Sharron - will just have to be 30 min for me with the rescheduling

<Sharron> Should be plenty of time, really just want to do a quick over view of what people are hoping for in the redesign process. Thanks for coming!

<Sharron> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_2019_Project_Plan#Notes

Sharron: What are your goals for the redesign?

Amanda: Update it. Always pointing clients to it. Want it to be as good as it can be.

Sharron: tools that we point to are not supported.

[Shawn notes that it still works, though not being updated.... ]

Amanda: We have so many good resources, maybe link to more

Andrew: IE toolbar still works. though most people moved away from using IE.
... needs a refresh. not necessarily take out IE. there are other tools that might be better up front.

Amanda: agree no need to take it out. we still heave lots of people using IE - e.g., governments. not take out, 'cause it does still work. there are other good visual ways that we can get info out nice & easy

Bri: agree in govt IE still being used

Sharron: looked at outline for project plan?
... think high priority and important. I've not had time to work on it. Only this week just started.
... tools and browser review. Looks at new tools & ones we use in Easy Checks right now. Added notes down under the table.
... brainstorms off the top of my head.
... always said we want them to be free & easy to use. Still really important.

Amanda: Yes free & easy to use. We're pointing clients who know not much. Tools need to free, good sources. Reliable. (If complex, they'll put in the too hard basket.)
... We point people to Easy Checks (not other tools)

Bri: us too

Andrew: And tool output needs to be easy to understand.

Sharron: If people happy still pointing to Easy Checks. Is it still a priority to update it?

Amanda: Easy Checks is there & simple to use. Since we use it often, I'm aware of how old it is. Want it to work for IE, but also for people using only Chrome. WAVE is OK for some things, but easier things to do in Chrome.

Sharron: Also get people who say "does that mean I have to download IE"?

[ Shawn noted updating for Chrome as been an open issue for 2 years! :-] [update since meeting: Already updated Easy Checks for Chrome... but I guess that's not apparent enough.]

Andrew: bringing in stuff from 2.1

Sharron: Shawn brought that work from the F2F small group - link in table [to GitHub #96]

Amanda: looks good to me.

Sharron: What tools are you recommending? Agreed not to remove WAT.

Andrew: Associated with a for-profit company?

Shawn: Tool needs to be free. Probably OK if associated with for-profit company. Good to keep in mind, but probably not a show-stopper. (WAT started out with Vision Australia) Really appreciate Sharron raising it!

Sharron: Thought good to check. What about tools that are not being updated? e.g., WAT not being updated, but it's still very useful.
... do we need to look at other reviews?
... when doing tools list, possibly open it up for comment. We decided not to 'cause it's risky.

Andrew: Good question. Haven't come across review except the big commercial tools. Not review of the free tools.

Amanda: Is it something that we can do?

Shawn: It seems when we write/update/review the instructions for doing the check, then we will be reviewing that the tool does a good job of it. Maybe that's enough?

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask other tools?

Shawn: what other tools?

Amanda: things like using voice over in Safari
... some is simple stuff

Andrew: headings map in Chrome.

Amanda: I use Totally plug in — although it's not as easy to use
... easy read - increases space (for 2.1 testing)
... often with WAVE it doesn't work well 'cause of lots of JS or whatever

Sharron: bookmarklets
... maybe mention tools list

Andrew: create table at bottom of wiki where we list then mark each criteria

Sharron: prefer sheet over wiki table

Andrew & Sharron & Shawn: yes to sheet over wiki table!

Europe Meeting

Europe Attendees

Present
Sharron, Shawn, Eric, Sylvie, Laura, Kris Anne
Chair
Sharron
Scribe
Shawn

Sharron: I got a different perspective from last night's meeting.
... Your goals?

Laura: Make sure it's updated -- browsers change so frequently -- IE third browser at the LOC -- make sure content seems updated enough.

<Sharron> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_2019_Project_Plan#Project_Plan

Kris Anne: Lot of people find & go to it. Have heard "Easy Checks" are not really that easy.

Sharron: Way we present it makes it seem harder than it is.

Kris Anne: Everything changes.
... needs to be so simplistic that changes [??].
... Baseline of what we're asking people to look for should be more simple. Stick to the basics.

Sharron: I was a big advocate for adding Forms. But maybe better not.

Kris Anne: Part 1 and Part 2.

Sharron: Easy and not so easy.

[ progressive disclosure :-]

Sylvie: Have it updated. 2.1 SC included. We have problems convincing people to make their content accessible. This is an important first step to show that it can be easy.

Eric: throw out everything that's outdated, mostly browser-specific tools. replaced with built in stuff or bookmarklets.
... not throw out baby w/ bathwater. Basic content is good. Maybe too much detail in some sections.
... every check on it's own page
... takes time to go through this page and understand it all
... not make it all encompassing. Not try to cover too much.
... not definitive answer.
... not do everything at once. step by step improvements.
... not make big 3-year project at first

+1 for phased approach - quick and easy updates first

<Laura> +1 to Eric's comments

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note that people are using this for training basic accessibility and to say options for one-per page or all-one-page and to say simplification of filters

<Sharron> Shawn: Step by step approach to easy, then not so easy. Gamify to get to different levels?
... Filters for tool(browser) and mouse/keyboard would already simplify quite a bit by limiting optional instructions shown.

<krisannekinney> filters!!!

<Sharron> Shawn: People are using as teaching tool even though that was not an intention. Can be considered as we decide how much guidance to keep in the text

Sharron: Struggle with trying to be all things to all people. Maybe intro teaching guide should be separate from this.
... don't want this to lose focus.

<Sharron> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_2019_Project_Plan#Project_Plan

Shawn: Right. Maybe easier now that we'll have intro course. [although, that's not for self-learning] Consider including info to understand evaluating the point versus learning about implementing it.

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say -1 to filters, +1 to have more tests, teaching in curriculum? move tips to tips?

Eric: ^^^

[ Shawn thinks the scope is limited - and not adding lots more checks beyond new ones for 2.1 SCs that fit the criteria]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks_2019_Project_Plan#Project_Plan

Sharron: agree
... In the wiki page, underneath the table are notes
... anyone with link can edit. can start adding your ideas for tools.
...2.1 SC addition suggestions from F2F small group work linked in the table -- GitHub issue https://github.com/w3c/EasyChecks/issues/96
... Maybe take one Check and suggest how to revise it, and use as template for others. Good approach?
... all of us can add to the tools list. Actions for everyone.

Eric: In chrome, don't need to install anything. except in IE

Sharron: Interesting that Australian government does still use IE, and need to leave it.

Eric: bookmarklets

Sharron: You're suggesting that Easy Checks includes a set of bookmarklets that we maintain?

Eric: Yes.

[ Shawn - will need to check if they will work in locked down environments? ]

Laura: Yes, will work in ours.

<yatil> http://pauljadam.com/bookmarklets

Shawn: Maybe need to re-consider big picture approach. I'm optimistic that the booklet approach will work great, though need to understand any issues, pros, cons before comfortable putting all eggs in that basket.

Sharron: Bring to group?

Laura: Like it.

Kris Anne: Yes.

Sylvie: I don't use bookmarklets. We would need to explain how to use them.

Eric: Yes, tell them how to "install" them, etc.
... Paul's are fairly bare bones. We could add more content to explain things.
We would need someone programming those bookmarklets. Hope it's not me.

Laura: Not me either.

Sharron: Could be Becky.

Shawn: I don't understand the issues, pros, cons.

Sharron: I could document that.

+1 for bringing it to larger group early

Laura: Agree to bring to whole group.

Sharron: Don't know issues either. OK to bring to the group.
... My task is to write up and send to Australian team. Pros & Cons.

Shawn: e.g., development time & possibly maintenance

Laura & Eric: maintenance should be minimal

Kris Anne: Even with bookmarklets, people still need to know what the issue is, and how to evaluate it. still need the instructions. bookmarklets are tool, but not [all of ] "it"

Laura: Easy way to check where your issues are on a page.

Sharron: With phased approach, maybe this is longer term?

Eric: e.g., bookmarklet that clearly displays only the page title is straightforward. can replace check info gradually. not have to do everything at once

Shawn: Page title is good example of where bookmarklet could significantly simply the instructions.

Laura: Tell large group we're making a demo check. Letting them know we're thinking of an incremental approach.

<end of telecon>

Sharron - another thought (related to talking with Becky) - we probably don't need to start from scratch on developing bookmarklets. Probably Paul and/or others would be happy to contribute their bookmarklet work and we can use some of that. :-)

<notabene> ah--- I'm too late to give input, sorry (and hello)

<notabene> shawn: re: "Paul and/or others would be happy to contribute their bookmarklet"

<notabene> a11y.css is happy to contribute too

<notabene> (I know he is, Gael Poupard, we work together)

cool!

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2019/04/02 15:53:21 $