20 Mar 2019


Irfan, Janina, Paul, Chris, Roy, Sam-Kanta, Christine, Dee


<Roy> Scribe: Dee

CSUN Updates

Updates from Irfan: meeting with 6 attendess at CSUN. Spoke about timeline. We do not have one yet. Suggest creating a sprint, work on Gap Analysis and Use cases.

Paul has created 7 tickets to be used as use cases.

Mark: CSUN presentation discussing challenges with pronunciation.
... Daisy, EPUB, among others attended.
... Additional discussions with AT vendors. Some will provide feedback.

Janina: we have historically had challenges getting AT vendor participation in the beginning. Can get feedback later on. Real issue is getting feedback soon enough.
... need to get support for standardization effort
... architectural question with regard to better foreign language support - should this be flagged in advance? What is the best support?
... ask this question earlier rather than later

Mark: Agrees with Janina. One vendor already thinking about such pronunciation features. We are getting the type of feedback we want from the AT community.
... make AT vendors aware. Everyone to use connections in AT community to get the message out.

<paul_grenier> phonemes can use ipa alphabet which should not need a lang attribute but could use a "voice"

Steve: AT vendors limited to voices that they use.
... we need to investigate the voices that AT vendors use.

Mark: we need to identity the voices that are supported by SSML.

Steve: some techniques may work in a particular voice but not another

Janina: voice choice depends upon the user, should find a voice that supports SSML, particularly for foreign languges

Paul: SSML specs and IPA -- IPA is language is agnostic if using phonemes. The limiting factor is definitely the voice. Some phonemes are not coded in the voice.

Irfan: Paul created a number of issues that should be discussed.

Paul: comment on the top level issue
... each issue links out to a page

<mhakkinen> +q

Janina: IPA might give us all that is needed. However, we have the need to display correctly in large print and in Braille.
... we need to support that wider range. Other domains need support as well.

Mark: Need to capture fallbacks. If the TTS engine does not fully support SSML or equivalent, how is a meaningful fallback provided?

MarkL TTS engines may not support SSML, but their own equivalent, i.e. Apple has their own.

Irfan: How does TTS work with foreign language?

Janina: At the moment, not well supported. For example - talking books, language not identified. Time to give Judy Dixon a call.

Mark: Ensure that content authors use existing markup such as lang attribute. People need to use current capability. JAWS will honor the attribute if appropriate TTS is loaded.

Janina: This is very important and becomes a reason to coordinate with publishing.

Irfan: We have potential new members: Robin Ferguson from UK, one person from Pearson.

Mark: Volker Sorge is also looking at the use of SSML for math markup. Resource to engage when needed.

Irfan: Melanie Richards from Microsoft also happy to work with this task force.

<Zakim> janina, you wanted to discuss ml paradigm from Diagram

Janina: Decision from Diagram Center about MML and Chemistry. Model for how to code domain knowledge. Diagram and Daisy will redo their text book in math. Idea is SVG with alt text and the MML will go into HTML details element (appendix), two are linked with an ARIA-details.

Gap Analysis

<Irfan> https://w3c.github.io/pronunciation/gap-analysis/

Irfan: posted information in github - gap analysis
... need someone to assist adding to document

Janina: has voluteered

Steve also volunteered

Steve will be main volunteer

Irfan: Steve, please send github id
... Send id to Roy and Irfan
... Is there anything to include in gap analysis. Are we missing something?

Janina: Use what exists or invent something new.

<mhakkinen> +q

Janina: Once we have collected use cases and derived requirements, we hope that SSML will meet them. This becomes the proof of our approach.

Irfan: Use cases help to identify supporting technology.

Mark: Would like to take an active role in editing document.

Irfan: Will coordinate with Mark.

<Roy> https://github.com/w3c/pronunciation/tree/master/gap-analysis

Irfan: start working on the document. Steve will help.

Use Case document

Irfan: based on last conversation about use cases, Janina to create document. Can this be on the wiki?

<janina> POE Use Cases and Requirements http://www.w3.org/TR/poe-ucr/

<janina> Spatial Data on the Web Use Cases & Requirements https://www.w3.org/TR/sdw-ucr/

<janina> Verifiable Claims Use Cases https://www.w3.org/TR/verifiable-claims-use-cases/

Janina: Sure, we should do this.

<janina> Web Publications Use Cases and Requirements https://www.w3.org/TR/pwp-ucr/

<janina> Portable Web Publications Use Cases and Requirements https://www.w3.org/TR/pwp-ucr/

Janina: Different ways of doing use cases. Need to look at them to determine the best approach for this group.
... Needs to be a group decision on how to do it.
... Use case specify problem.

Irfan: Start a document, collectively make a decision on use case documentation.

Sam: specialty around user storied etc. would like to make a contribution to this effort
... documentation should include a holistic view of the problem

Christine: Also has experience with user stories

Sam: has many questions. Will ask Irfan offline.
... parallel discovery work needed

Paul: ask that we don't use the wiki for collaboration

Irfan: we use github to create documentation
... we need to determine best approach for writing use cases
... how do we do that?

<paul_grenier> The last one seems to be the most "user story" focused (based on cursory glance)

Janina: In favor of starting with user scenarios.

Irfan: Sam and Christine are the volunteers. Create document of github so that they can create user scenarios.
... will create the user scenario document.
... Sam is new.

Members will introduce themselves.

<Roy> zakim: https://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html

<Roy> rrsagent: https://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent

<Roy> trackbot: https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc


<SteveNoble> Sorry...I had to cut off to another call.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: Irfan, Janina, Paul, Chris, Roy, Sam-Kanta, Christine, Dee
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