07 Feb 2019


Steve_Lee, Jennie_Delisi, John_Rochford, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Neil_Milliken, Ollie, Jamie_Knight, kirkwood, Jennie, JohnRochford, Abi, MichaelC, stevelee, janina, Rachael


<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> overview of gaps and overlaps : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zmbt7ZfEgVDcICzBnjwkjFRBuGc7In5pMcgB_z6zO34/edit

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> scribe: kirkwood

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> zakim. next item


LS: firs item is handled not sure about WCAG 2.2
... input from Rachel is in document, we will defer to final decision of 2.2
... ok with everyone?


<Abi> +1

<janina> +1 to deferring until we know there will be a WCAG 2.2

etzi harmization with design guided etsi harmization of design guided

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> overview of gaps and overlaps : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zmbt7ZfEgVDcICzBnjwkjFRBuGc7In5pMcgB_z6zO34/edit

LS: good input but double check if everyone ok
... Abi sent an email to list about harmonizing design patterns

Abi: more to do with user needs specifically link to ETSY broke down extensively user needs would be useful in discussion and language we are using when describing disability. could be useful for framing

LS: this is what andy heath was working on?

Abi: not sure
... both actual guaidelines want to make sure not contradicting in particilar to do with language
... in discussion with Silver linking back to user needs may helpful with development

LS: also have in research document we have some cgonitive function there
... in beginnnin of doc we have user needs, have we forgotton any?

Abi: in resiarch it is very much by diagnosis

LS: at the end we talk about cognitive functions and we have a summary list
... we made a mapping table and discussed what we meant by each one
... certianly language and what ETSY is using it would be very useful

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://w3c.github.io/coga/design/

LS: take a look at design guide this link

<Abi> ETSI document cog-a11y

LS: can we do a check to see if they tought user needs, have we forgot user needs, it would be very helpful for quality of document

<Abi> ETSI document https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_tr/103300_103399/103349/01.01.01_60/tr_103349v010101p.pdf

EA: Andy Heath had a massive list of user needs and that is available
... based on trace and is a very very very long list is that what you were thinkin we’d go through?

LS: not now. look at different orgs and checking what we missed
... when Abi said want to look at standard and see if harmanize lets do it now to see if missing anything
... asking if Abi want to check if user needs in doc had things we didn’t have

Abi: put link in list here, doesn’st seem particularly onerous
... less specifically technology forcused

LS: feel free to say if particularly onerous let us know
... we have 6 months time
... there’s been a lot of copying back and forth anyway so I wouldn’t worry too much

<scribe> ACTION:

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> ACTION: abi to review etzi ETSI document https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_tr/103300_103399/103349/01.01.01_60/tr_103349v010101p.pdf and

<trackbot> Created ACTION-310 - Review etzi etsi document https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_tr/103300_103399/103349/01.01.01_60/tr_103349v010101p.pdf and [on Abi James - due 2019-02-14].


is stucture harmonised : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aJE2C0FzzzXgydEp0MNGSdDDvUTTsANViUVvciFK36k/edit#

LS: Steve on the call?
... wanted to get action item of harmonizing document
... just wanted to check action of addressing the overlaps from the face to face

Steve: do you mean in the note itself was waiting for content to be available

LS: we had document design patterns, did you want a table at top of google doc

Jennie: wanted to see which ones were merged and ones that are still there so put name on one should actually work on

Steve: hopefully should be merged now

LS: anyone wants to do it now since two weeks after face to face

Jannie: see your name is tollbar controls with your name next to some

LS: do we have any to be reviewed?
... could do first views of objective 8
... bit worried about waiting
... think it will be ok
... if anyone wants to put name down for patterns in objective 8

yes i could review

just want to make sure i’m going to the exact right place

LS: in next two weeks lets have one or two ready for review, reasonavble?

<Jennie> +1 to having them done in 2 weeks


LS: Abi want to put your name down

ABI; was able to do call out boxes?

LS: yes you are down for call out boxes
... any outstanding issues if anyone is stuck

gap anlisis update from jenni and did we see summary of issue papers

LS: might be good idea to work on first sentence for next week in design pattern we’ll see next week
... next is gap analysis from Jennie

<Jennie> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16OA95LpFAcHWb5Y_4wS65q64gEEWf1AYNfmt2_Pjd6A/edit#heading=h.6oq0pzpbj3fc

JD: draft document in the IRC
... subgroup EA Jamine myself and…
... drafted info and got feedback that part is in draft form
... jamie did a table of user stories, user statement, perosn needs, goals
... EA is working on some of the more technical pieces

JS: we named Steve our supreme reviewer ;)

Steve: gave input on how to paste table into google dod

EA: not a good time to capture students to help
... only a couple of user stories, but now tha tJamie’ s user stories are in place
... need help technically from Steve to put tecniquues in
... slightly concerned at size of Jamie’s table
... I have serialized it and make it all heading 2 etc

Janina: particularly want to see user stories

English colds are the worst! ;)

Jennie: tried to address feedback about users have table like typical password issues and what distinguishes this group trying to address different experience

Janina: are you saying its ready to review?

Steve: I will go through tomorrow

EA: waiting for your help
... need to match solutions to each use case
... user stories just came in a little while ago

Steve: we can work out best way to work out

JD: I’m going to step back and see and let me know

Steve: can contact
... tell Janinina as soon as ready to review

LS: good stuff did fantasitc job
... theser user needs look better than what we have
... probably better having brain storming of user experience

Abi: are you talking about design guide

LS: yes flow through to design guide
... don’t want user needs stuck in gap analyis

Abi: looking in google doc they are specific to logging in

LS: yes just first topic
... other topics we are going to do more but concern too much work

Steve: can do as much as we can

LS: we will harmonize both ways

Abi: ETSY is a bit above but whats in google doc

sorry didn’t quite catch that one

LS: bare in mind this is one of 9 table and this is the smallest

Janinina: thats fine

LS: just want to be practical and this is really ambition given this is the smalles

Janina: if i’m deleting more than I’m adding its really effective for me

LS: bare in mind we want to make short and succinct, good
... we’ve taken out summary of issue papers and we have pt in back. maybe we wnat to put some of it back in
... when review look at whats in appendix

Jannina: there needs to be a story and thats the missing piece, we need a John Steinbeck break your heart story

LS: i think we’re there with content in issue paper can cross reference

Janina: need the really short story break your heart is important
... I’ll try and think I can get close

LS: user stories in gap anayis and user guide

Janina: btw Jamie is a damn good user story

<EA> +1

Janinina; lets use how Jamie showed us at our F2D


LS: bearing in mind not everything needed don’t want gap analysisi to take 2 years that would be my concern
... went through y6 agenda items in 43 minutes

end call early?

Steve: nothing to add at this time, can show how web pages are going and got design guide into place

<stevelee> https://w3c.github.io/wai-coga/coga-draft/guide/

Steve: can share
... this a link to mockup

Steve showing navigaition on left came up with names for each of objectives

Steve: showing mockup draft inroduction material user testing user stories and list of patterns for this objectve
... this is latest which working on at the moment

LS: now I have design guid not sure what knowable means

Steve: it might be possible
... sub menu items that clearly… is difficult to make shorter

LS: not sure about the nav on left
... new lexicon not working for me
... knowable is so ambiguous

Jennie: I’d look at structure first and vocabulary second
... I like the layout and white spce

LS: really like the mental health one that Steve pulled

Steve: yes the jargon is a cognitive step away

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://www.designpatternsformentalhealth.org

Jennie: I was wondering if we could get an exptise see what left nav simplified way get experts could do

Jenania: say when

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> https://www.designpatternsformentalhealth.org/pattern-library/

Steve showing mockup

LS: feel its a step back from mockup
... could have responsive design but this will be a challenge with accessibility

lisa you are dropping out

LS: when you are a slower reader don’t know what they are
... the fact that its in a sub menu don’t know where I am

Steve: i find it to be too complicated and too verbose

I agee with Steve on this actually

<stevelee> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vajEx9BCv02snDwP7XRcUrB3mbJlz_4qkeBEto3Unqs/edit#

LS: see all objectives at same time

Steve: that’s what tried to do

LS: think lost structure

can’t hear you lisa

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> losing the conection - cant hear

LS: making into submenu losing structure of design guide and you’ve lost this

Jennie: would it be possible to take 2 links and review for next week?

<stevelee> https://w3c.github.io/wai-coga/coga-draft/guide/knowable/

<stevelee> https://w3c.github.io/wai-coga/coga-draft/guide/knowable/

LS: do you want to put a lot of time into it now?

Steve: any thoughts around structure it would be very useful to know at this point
... I’ll make titles longer to fix jargon issues

LS: get rid of stuff on left

Steve: but there is more stuff on top of left overview more stuff being shown

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: abi to review etzi ETSI document https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_tr/103300_103399/103349/01.01.01_60/tr_103349v010101p.pdf and

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: Steve_Lee, Jennie_Delisi, John_Rochford, Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Neil_Milliken, Ollie, Jamie_Knight
Present: Steve_Lee Jennie_Delisi John_Rochford Janina_Sajka Michael_Cooper Neil_Milliken Ollie Jamie_Knight kirkwood Jennie JohnRochford Abi MichaelC stevelee janina Rachael
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People with action items: abi

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