Solid Community -- 05 Feb 2019

<elf-pavlik> o/

<csarven> So.. minutes. Was that already discussed before I joined?

<csarven> gotomeeting no good for me (on Ubuntu). only calling in.

<elf-pavlik> csarven, i have it working from Android

<csarven> i can live with audio-only

<vid> fwiw gotomeeting is working ok for me on ubuntu w/ chrome

<melvster> jitsi

<csarven> ah that's it!

<csarven> https://talky.io/ was fairly reliable for me.

<elf-pavlik> rubenverborgh, goal is to try to get to know each other, understand what we try to build and what we need for that

<elf-pavlik> ... solid supposed to be for everyone

<elf-pavlik> ... we already had some introductions on email list but please say your name and 2-3 sentences here

<elf-pavlik> ... if no one objects we'll record it

<pano> q

<elf-pavlik> rubenverborgh, working at IMAC Ghent university

<elf-pavlik> ... i worked on server and auth-client

<elf-pavlik> ... now working on dev experience and dev architecture stuff

<elf-pavlik> Arne Hassel, working on linked data RDF, i want to talk about tools

<elf-pavlik> Mitzi_Laszlo, background in neuroscience

<michielbdejong> q

<elf-pavlik> ... it lead to frustration on not having access to data

<elf-pavlik> ... i became ethic auditor on EU commission

<elf-pavlik> ... i want to record what already exists

<elf-pavlik> jonas, from Denmark, for 19 working on packaging software for Debian

<elf-pavlik> ... pearl packages for Semantic Web

<elf-pavlik> ... lately some of the JS packages

<elf-pavlik> ... working on something similar to freedombox

<elf-pavlik> ... but based on semweb

<elf-pavlik> csarven, located in Switzerland

<elf-pavlik> ... started as PhD visitor at MIT working on Solid

<elf-pavlik> ... working mostly on client side authoring applications

<elf-pavlik> dmitriz, i was core solid developer at MIT during 2016 2017

<elf-pavlik> ... currently working on Verifiable Credentials and did

<elf-pavlik> ... involved in source open source capacity

<elf-pavlik> ... created WebID-OIDC mechanism

<elf-pavlik> ... also part of DigitalBazaar team working on distributed ledger

<elf-pavlik> ... also working on mobile app which does contacts management

<elf-pavlik> ... main focus getting Solid to interoperate and talk about standards

<elf-pavlik> kezike, student at MIT

<rubenverborgh> Oshani: I am currently based in Troy, NY

<RJ> +q

<rubenverborgh> I work at Rensselaer

<rubenverborgh> was at MIT with Tim Berners-Lee as thesis advisor

<rubenverborgh> familiar with Solid, worked on Tabulator

<rubenverborgh> worked on panes and policy data integration

<rubenverborgh> have been away for some time, but now getting into using Solid at RPI

<rubenverborgh> thanks

<elf-pavlik_> markus_sabadello, i see several familiar names on the call

<elf-pavlik_> ... worked on user centric identity from early days of OpenID 1.0

<elf-pavlik_> ... also worked on freedombox, unhosted

<elf-pavlik_> ... done a little bit work with Solid

<elf-pavlik_> ... wrote WebID-TLS proxy service

<elf-pavlik_> which hosted client certificates on proxy server rather than local device

<elf-pavlik_> ... now working on DID decentralized identifiers

<elf-pavlik_> TallTed, working for OpenLink Sofware

<elf-pavlik_> ... been in bunch of W3C groups

<elf-pavlik_> ... about a year ago started working on Solid

<elf-pavlik_> ... I poke into everything maybe not so much code

<elf-pavlik_> bourgeoa, ....

<elf-pavlik_> michielbdejong, worked on decentralized web since 2010

<elf-pavlik_> ... including unhosted webapps

<elf-pavlik_> ... FirefoxOS data sync

<elf-pavlik_> ... following federated social web, freedom box and other projects people mentioned

<elf-pavlik_> ... excited about this cross over with Linked Data

<elf-pavlik_> elf-pavlik_, MIT

<elf-pavlik_> ... worked on RDF

<elf-pavlik_> ... working on Solid to store and manage health records

<elf-pavlik_> KjetilK, semantic web intrest going back to 1998

<elf-pavlik_> ... participating in various W3C groups

<elf-pavlik_> ... worked on Opera software

<elf-pavlik_> ... done PhD on decentralized SPARQL

<elf-pavlik_> ... employed by Inrupt working on software

<megoth> forgot to mention that KjetilK was my supervisor on my master thesis ^_^

<elf-pavlik_> RJ, following RDF

<elf-pavlik_> ... working in Etherioum community training people on Solidity

<elf-pavlik_> pmcb55, a lot of experience applying RDF and Linked Data to enterprise

<elf-pavlik_> ... most recent work with Mastercard

<csarven> someone is pumpin' up the jam

<elf-pavlik_> ... developed projects for NGOs setting up pods for refugees

<elf-pavlik_> justinwb, CTO at Janeiro DIgital

<elf-pavlik_> ... working very closely with Inrupt

<elf-pavlik_> +q

<justinwb> Janeiro Digital :)

<csarven> list participants

<csarven> list attendees

<elf-pavlik_> Alex_Bourlier, french working on cooperative

<elf-pavlik_> ... developers can use web components to compose their applications

<csarven> argh

<elf-pavlik_> Kelly O'Brian, working on Inrupt along side Tim

<elf-pavlik_> ... following along here

<Zakim> dmitriz, you wanted to ask people about standards they'd like this CG to tackle

<csarven> If anyone is not familiar with our friendly AI, Zakim: https://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot

<elf-pavlik_> dmitriz, I want to ask everybody what everyone want to get out of Solid CD and what kind of spec you would like to work on

<rubenverborgh> Alex, do you want to reply to Dmitri or raise another point?

<elf-pavlik_> ... myself I'd love to standardize social media followers following lists

<elf-pavlik_> ... how VCard contacts can integrate with social graph

<rubenverborgh> It is useful to say "q+ to talk about xxxx", then we can moderate easily

<elf-pavlik_> ... how people want to handle application manifests

<elf-pavlik_> ... app based permissions etc.

<Zakim> megoth, you wanted to reply to Dmitri

<elf-pavlik_> megoth, which mechanisms we can implement with Solid to limit various kinds of abuse which we can see on social media

<elf-pavlik_> ... hopefully we can have something to make such abuse more difficult

<dmitriz> +1 to anti-abuse and moderation mechanisms conversation.

<elf-pavlik_> timbl: preferred languages, accessibility things

<elf-pavlik_> ... basic preferences

<Zakim> rubenverborgh, you wanted to reply to Dmitri

<elf-pavlik_> rubenverborgh, interested in vocabularies and shapes

<elf-pavlik_> ... we can have layers of specs

<ericP> s/\?\?\?/Janeiro/

<elf-pavlik_> ... core spec and then apps can declare compatibility with extended specs

<Zakim> Alex_Bourlier, you wanted to raise another point

<elf-pavlik_> Alex_Bourlier, everyday we struggle with parts of specifications which we are not sure how to interpret or possibly are incomplete

<elf-pavlik_> ... sometimes we need to invent how to implement those missing parts

<elf-pavlik_> ... i'd like a place to discuss that

<elf-pavlik_> rubenverborgh, please do raise issues on the spec

<elf-pavlik_> ... we can also use meetings like this one

<elf-pavlik> Alex_Bourlier, we build a client side store which should interact with server

<elf-pavlik> ... heave in terms of code

<elf-pavlik> ... i think most of us will face this challenge

<elf-pavlik> ... i would like to work on it together with other people

<elf-pavlik> kezike, idea that application is interacting with personal data

<elf-pavlik> ... people are used to certain paradigm

<rubenverborgh> 👍

<csarven> +1

<elf-pavlik> ... how do we actually properly communicate the solid paradigm

<megoth> +1

<elf-pavlik> ... now when you sign up for a pod, you live in 'confinment'

<elf-pavlik> ... i recall project ??? that supposed to aggregate solid data ...

<elf-pavlik> justinwb, people start to build applications bigger than PoC

<elf-pavlik> ... people can multiple applications and expect level of interoperability

<timbl> Yes solid git interesting, and connections between solid and git could be variuoius

<elf-pavlik> ... we need ability to enable server side shapes validation

<elf-pavlik> ... it also relates to what dmitriz talked about with app manifest

<rubenverborgh> +1 shapes will be _huge_ for Solid

<elf-pavlik> ... i think something like data manifest

<elf-pavlik> ... we need to talk more about data

<rubenverborgh> shapes are the new ontologies **ducks**

<Zakim> dmitriz, you wanted to add a comment about Forum, gitter, etc

<elf-pavlik> dmitriz, I'd like to follow up on question of interpretation of specs

<Zakim> Oshani, you wanted to ask about any existing work on private/sensitive healthcare data sharing on SOLID

<elf-pavlik> ... besides issues one can also post on https://forum.solidproject.org/

<Alex_Bourlier> Thanks

<Alex_Bourlier> I was about to ask

<Alex_Bourlier> :-)

<elf-pavlik> Oshani, I work with health data a lot, patient data needs to stay in private pod and in can get shared with specific participants

<elf-pavlik> ... would the spec include policies in the future

<Zakim> rubenverborgh, you wanted to talk about health

<elf-pavlik> rubenverborgh, working at Ghent university we see health as one of primary target use cases

<elf-pavlik> ... how the data can move around

<elf-pavlik> ... what if data stays in one place but we just give access to it

<elf-pavlik> ... regarding legislation, policies exist for data expiration and it supports idea of multiple pods

<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to descibe Personal Health TRain

<elf-pavlik> ericP, Personal Health TRain takes Solid and adds control over managing medical records

<elf-pavlik> ... sharing data for user purposes

<elf-pavlik> Oshani, I also worked with blockchain solutions

<Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask if blockchain is helpful

<megoth> Oshani what was the name of the blockchain you mentioned?

<elf-pavlik> ericP, blockchain is really useful for consensus over data state

<elf-pavlik> ... i rarely see connection where blockchain can help with managing personal health data

<rubenverborgh> from pmcb55:

<rubenverborgh> I think Verifiable Claims (or similar) being adopted by Solid would be good - specifically I mean within the Solid eco-system ('cos there's nothing for this in the collection of specs that make up 'Solid' today, right?).

<Oshani> megoth, FHIRChain

<csarven> podagnostic

<megoth> thx

<KjetilK> +1 to Verifiable Claims being important

<elf-pavlik> timbl, we may need a way to deal with pods which try to mishandle people's data

<elf-pavlik> ... we could attach metadata where the data came from etc.

<RJ> @Oshani: simplyvitalhealth.com does PHI on blockchain, now in Boston

<elf-pavlik> ... if you want to make something public you could attach license

<Zakim> dmitriz, you wanted to reply to Andrea J.'s question in the GTM chat

<elf-pavlik> Oshani, is that in scope of solid community to work on licensing and policies

<elf-pavlik> timbl, i see it in scope and build into the system

<elf-pavlik> dmitriz, kezike done PoC of Verifiable Claims

<dmitriz> kezike on here did a VC PoC

<elf-pavlik> markus_sabadello, since blockchain have been mentioned, it came as one of motivations for DIDs

<dmitriz> +1 to getting the Solid community to join the Decentralized Identifiers conversation.

<elf-pavlik> ... self sovereign identity community

<elf-pavlik> ... identifiers relying on DNS don't stay considered as under control of an individual

<elf-pavlik> ... one can loose it and it can get taken over by someone else

<elf-pavlik> ... DID could be a valid WebID and integrated into the solid spec

<elf-pavlik> rubenverborgh, WebID has to be URI that needs to be resolvable

<Zakim> megoth, you wanted to blockchain and DID

<rubenverborgh> timbl: general point on DIDs

<rubenverborgh> system will gave back public key

<rubenverborgh> enough information to point to other stuff

<rubenverborgh> little bit of profile information, name, profile pic, etc.

<rubenverborgh> if that exists, I can imagine logging in with DID, should be not trivial but easy

<rubenverborgh> we have to ask who maintains code, resolvers, etc.

<RJ> re: proof of data in a private store: zero knowledge proof via merkle tree has become popular, worth looking at

<rubenverborgh> will they last enough, be more resilient?

<rubenverborgh> Solid community in general is in favor of DID

<rubenverborgh> WebID-TLS is more decentralized

<rubenverborgh> verifiable claims (VC), to a certain extent, signing stuff, we haven't done enough

<rubenverborgh> we haven't signed enough RDF

<rubenverborgh> even though we started out in 2000

<rubenverborgh> and then we wrote rules

<rubenverborgh> nobody started using it widely

<rubenverborgh> we need something modular

<rubenverborgh> it's okay to have two stacks if that gets interoperability everywhere

<rubenverborgh> maybe one will dominate

<TallTed> TallTed: worth noting -- Verifiable Claims is less about "verifying that this claim is true" and more about "verifying that 'A said B about C', which statement was claimed by D (who may also be C)". The question of whether A is trusted about B or C is left to the verifying party.

<rubenverborgh> dmitriz: no competing standards

<rubenverborgh> kezike should talk about his stack at some point

<rubenverborgh> but there's one set of standards

<rubenverborgh> kezike: exactly what dmitriz said

<elf-pavlik> rubenverborgh, for next time let's try to prepare agenda

<kezike> https://github.com/kezike/solid-vc

<csarven> elf-pavlik++

<KjetilK> As a final note, I'd like to point out the announcement of Node Solid Server 5.0.0 beta: https://forum.solidproject.org/t/announcement-5-0-0-beta-series/1203

<rubenverborgh> elf-pavlik do you know how to pull a page from this?

<elf-pavlik> i saved it from local chat

<rubenverborgh> okay

<elf-pavlik> it think we needed to have RSSAgent to automate it

<rubenverborgh> so no RSSagent stuff or so?

<rubenverborgh> i will try

<rubenverborgh> rssagent, please draft minutes

<rubenverborgh> Scribe: Elf Pavlik

<rubenverborgh> ScribeNick: elf-pavlik

<rubenverborgh> scribenick: elf-pavlik, elf-pavlik_, rubenverborgh

<rubenverborgh> aargh

<rubenverborgh> scribenick: elf-pavlik elf-pavlik_ rubenverborgh

<rubenverborgh> ah got it

<rubenverborgh> ScribeNick: elf-pavlik

<rubenverborgh> ScribeNick: elf-pavlik_

<rubenverborgh> or not

<rubenverborgh> ScribeNick: elf-pavlik

- DRAFT -

Solid Community

05 Feb 2019

Attendees

Contents

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Scribe.perl diagnostic output