W3C

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

17 Dec 2018

Attendees

Present
krit, ericwilligers, myles, Tavmjong, AmeliaBR, Chris_Lilley, stakagi, Tav_, +chris, Chris
Regrets
Chair
krit
Scribe
AmeliaBR

Contents


<scribe> Scribe: AmeliaBR

WG Status

Dirk: The charter has been sent to AC reps for review. Don't expect word back until next year.

"Sizing properties" section should mention the "use" element

Dirk: We deferred this last week, waiting for testing. Eric, were you able to do that?

Eric: None of the properties currently use the width and height geo properties for either use or nested SVG. That may be a bug logically, but we have interop.

Dirk: We also have sort-of interop in lack of support for image and foreignObject, no one supports except Blink.

Eric: I didn't test that.

Dirk: Can we resolve to exclude width and height as geometry properties on both use elements and nested SVG?

Amelia: I don't like excluding nested SVG, since I think that is very confusing for authors.

Dirk: Can we have a plan B, then? Can we mark them as At Risk in the spec.

GitHub: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/607

Amelia: Sounds good. Marking At Risk should also get more attention to the implementation issues.

RESOLUTION: For <use> elements in SVG 2.0, width and height have no effect as CSS properties.
... For nested <svg> (SVG without CSS layout box), using CSS properties to specify width and height will be marked at-risk.

Amelia: I can take the action on this. I have other edits to the <use> section to work on. Hope to do it this week.

'image' element not defined to fire 'load' event when load happens

Github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/361

Amelia: Another one we discussed last week and needed data.

Dirk: Yes, and BigBadaboom (Paul LeBeau) submitted a CodePen, which I've extended and confirmed the results.
... Firefox and Chrome do fire the event, Safari and Edge don't.
... We have a tie. Two implementations either way.

Amelia: I'd argue that deciding factor should be consistency with HTML. So, it should fire the event.

Dirk: I'd agree.

RESOLUTION: SVG image element should fire a load event similar to HTMLImageElement.

Amelia: Any volunteers to draft the wording? I'd recommend linking to HTML spec as much as possible.

Dirk: I can try, but maybe not in next few weeks. If anyone else does it sooner, go ahead.

White-space only text nodes.

GitHub: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/352

Dirk: For SVG, we have the XML whitespace rule but we also have CSS property.

Tav: Issue came up when updating inkscape. We actually strip whitespace-only nodes unless there is `xml-space="preserve"` (which we always add when we generate code).
... But I can't find an XML spec that recommends that.
... So I'd be happy with just keeping whitespace nodes always.

Dirk: Are then other differences between them, or can we just treat xml-space as mapping to CSS.

Amelia: That's how we've currently got it defined.

Tav: It's a little complicated. xml-space strips out a lot of stuff. The Level 4 CSS spec adds in a new value for `white-space` that matches the `xml-space` behavior.

https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/text.html#WhiteSpace

Tav: Browsers implement the attribute already.

Amelia: Not consistently. I think only Firefox implements it fully.

Tav: Yes, there was some issue about the inheritability of the attribute.

<chris> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-4/#white-space-property

<chris> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-3/#white-space-property

https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-4/#propdef-text-space-collapse

Amelia: Could we move the new values from CSS Text 4 into SVG 2, and make that the stable definition for now?

Chris: Looking at the Level 3 vs 4 definitions of `white-space`, I don't see any new values.

Amelia: Looks like it's been moved to a new `text-space-collapse` longhand. The `preserve-spaces` value.

Myles: I'm not sure what the issue is. Can we just defer it to CSS WG?

Tav: I could do some updated testing on what current behavior is.

<myles> ++chris

Dirk: The question is whether we need to do this now, or can defer the fix until later.

Amelia: We could leave the current spec text, which has special rendering behavior for the attribute not defined in CSS. The issue about removing whitespace-only nodes sounds like its a non-issue per spec, from Tav's research.

Chris: If there is interest in implementing the new keyword, I like the idea of moving it up to be a stable spec. We could discuss that.

Dirk: The open issue is then what does `xml-space="default"` map to. Need testing for that.
... Can we resolve on not dropping white-space nodes?

Eric: I don't think we should ever just drop nodes. That would affect JS and so on.

Amelia: If Inkscape drops nodes as part of import/export clean-up, that's probably not a big issue, but that's not per spec.
... The issue is whether this was actually a parser instruction on the XML parser, that the nodes get dropped before the DOM is created.

<chris> http://www.xmlplease.com/xml/xmlspace/

<chris> +1

Dirk: Can we resolve?

RESOLUTION: `xml-space` attribute does not affect parsing of whitespace nodes.

Other items?

Amelia: Eric, it looks like there's some discussion on GitHub about your PR for testing getComputedStyle. Not sure anything to discuss here.

<krit> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/painting.html#MarkerUnitsAttribute

<krit> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/text.html#TextPathElementStartOffsetAttribute

Eric: I was testing current behavior. But maybe that needs to change.

Dirk: I'm hoping to get resolution on issue #113. Amelia, you'd filed this about markup in the specs.

Amelia: I haven't looked recently. It was filed based on a complaint from Leonie Watson, who found the markup confusing with a screen reader.

<chris> -1 to needless spec churn

Dirk: Accessibility of our specs is of course important. But so is consistency with CSS.

Chris: we should definitely try to be consistent with the markup and styling used by Bikeshed.
... A reminder that the charter is sent to the AC Reps (since Friday). We've had 5 responses so far, need 20 to approve. Please let your rep know.

Dirk: Next meeting will be 7 January. Happy Holidays, everyone.

<krit> Thanks for scribing AmeliaBR !

trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. For <use> elements in SVG 2.0, width and height have no effect as CSS properties.
  2. SVG image element should fire a load event similar to HTMLImageElement.
  3. `xml-space` attribute does not affect parsing of whitespace nodes.
[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
$Date: 2018/12/17 21:47:20 $

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Default Present: krit, ericwilligers, myles, Tavmjong, AmeliaBR, Chris_Lilley, stakagi, Tav_, +chris
Present: krit ericwilligers myles Tavmjong AmeliaBR Chris_Lilley stakagi Tav_ +chris Chris
Found Scribe: AmeliaBR
Inferring ScribeNick: AmeliaBR
Found Date: 17 Dec 2018
People with action items: 

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