W3C

- DRAFT -

Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

04 Dec 2018

Attendees

Present
alastairc, Detlev, Rachael, Laura, Brooks, MichaelC, Mike_Elledge, MarcJohlic, stevelee, gowerm, JF, kirkwood, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Glenda
Regrets
Chuck, Bruce, Jake
Chair
alastairc
Scribe
Laura, jon_avila

Contents


<laura> Scribe: Laura

Review of Techniques ready for initial review: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Ready+for+initial+review%22

<alastairc> Noting progress: https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Techniques/#changelog

AC: making good progress with techniques.
... Now we have a change log.
... we have 10 new ones.
... next updat will be Friday.
... Need new ones now.
... Have a handful that need +1’s

Technique - setting role of img on icon fonts #531 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/531

AC: don’t want details now but overview.
... need some +1s
... setting role=img on icon fonts
... for low vision

<alastairc> https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/wcag/blob/tech-icon-font-img-role/techniques/aria/icon-font-img-role.html

AC: The objective of this technique is to show how to semantically identify an element that uses a font to create an icon.
... Some low vision users need user stylesheets, scripts, or extensions to override the fonts on a page to perceive text content.
... only practical way at the moment to do this.
... speak now if you have any major issues.
... 531 is the topic
... please read it and comment or give it a +1

Technique hover focus hoverable #543 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/543

AC: one of detlev’s
... sufficient technique.

<alastairc> Preview: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/wcag/tech-hover-focus-hoverable/techniques/general/tech-hover-focus-hoverable.html

AC: maybe simplify the desciption. Seems reasonable.
... any comments on procedure?
... please read it and comment or give it a +1

Technique failure orientation lock #545 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/545

AC: from andrew.
... is concise.
... maybe tidy up the description

<Detlev> Not easy to understand: "check that the controls can be set to allow checks one and two to be true."

AC: procedure is straight forward.

katie: comment on description.
... instance of a wall display.
... there are other examples that we may not me thinking of.
... make sure it is not lmited to one example.

JA: low vision may have an example.

AC: landscape example would be useful.

detlev: procedure “Open the content in ..” why split it?

AC: add a comment.

detlev: failure if it doesn’t immediately respond?

brooks: how do we account for the exception?

AC: wish awk was here.

<jon_avila> I agree that we would have to build the exception language into the technique

david: build it into the language or drop the failure.
... don’t know of previous tech that had and exception in a failure.

jf: would make it a success tech.

david: think we are okay not to mention it.

ac: should be in a wcag manual :-)
... has to be outside the failure.

david: passing would be the exception.
... it is confusing.

ac: useful example that a tech doesn’t need to be huge.

Technique icon contrast #546 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/546

AC: I wrote it over the weekend.

<alastairc> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/wcag/blob/tech-icon-contrast/techniques/general/icon-contrast.html

AC: focused on simpler end of the scale.
... Description is short.
... inked to appropriate resources.
... Procedure 5 steps.
... questions or comments?

(none)

MG: I gave it a +1
... suggest saying the one that “does not meet” have that in a caption.
... telephone icon okay?
... yes

AC: will update

detlev: maybe remove the last example.
... focus on good examples.

<gowerm> I like having the borderline example

AC: including it as a worse case good example
... dangerous territory. muddy the waters.
... applies to pattered backgrounds.

<Detlev> ok, fair enough..

ac: need to build on the understanding doc.

<gowerm> I HATE gradients, but I realize that this is another one of those 'if you are going to do gradients anyway, here's how to verify'

leave comments an +1s in the issue

Review of Techniques to do: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15idlBl1qQTNr2SIi4Drzk1Q1vnWAi5L26GCCv6mjD2g/edit?usp=sharing

AC: this is our todo list
... need volunteers.

anyone know about: “Failure: Using autocomplete for non-user specific examples “

detlev: example on booking flights. autocomplete for others that don’t apply to the user.
... confusing for authors.
... take off the autocomplete?
... not sure what out advice should be.

brooks: yes. Issue I brought up.
... lots of inputs for others than the user themself.

ac: failure case?

jf: hear the confusion.
... html5 doesn’t prescribe.
... nothing happens it you download a new browser.
... not in scope

<alastairc> Wondering if we need to add an issue to the webplat tracker? Can they clarify the usage of autocomplete? (with context from our sc)

jf: data related to other family members we can be sure of.
... attribute is for the user.
... it is out of scope.

<Detlev> @JF: so what's the advice to authors in this case regarding the other fields?

<Zakim> gowerm, you wanted to say Example 82 may help discussion

<gowerm> https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/sec-forms.html#sec-autofill

MG: the spec had the idea of section tokens.
... touches on this. wants someone to pour over the spec.

jf: what happens with the HTML validator?
... would be a concern?

mg: we don’t have to align with the validator.
... make sure we are on solid ground.

<jon_avila> We can't fail autocomplete mis-used as it's not covered by the SC.

jf: concerned with a failure that the validator disagrees with

brooks: Confused about this.
... we don’t have clarity.

<JF> help users understand an input *SCOPED to the user*

brooks: we need more clarity.

jf: hear the concern.
... keep it simple: SCOPED to the user.
... the will reduce confusion.

<Detlev> but authors will still ask how they should tackle fields NOT scoped to the user...

jf: putting autocomplete on things other than the user would be a failure.
... the spec is weak.
... nonspecific in the scoping.

<Detlev> I thought we don't want a WCAG failure for those cases??

jf: it is information about the user.
... can we make editorial changes to the understanding doc?

AC: yes.

jf: Should I rewrite?

AC: yes.

JA: I disagree that we can fail putting autocomplete on something input than the user.
... not applicable.
... it is out of scope. orphan information.

jf: scoping is vague.

AC: we can leave it for the moment. Something to investigate.

jf: there is section dash *
... most UA don’t do anything with it.

AC: need some clarity form the HTML spec

detlev: confusion on how to apply this to inputs other than the user.

scribe change?

scribe: real use case.

jf: need examples.

<jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila

AC: good to add techniques about use of appropriate and inappropriate use.

<laura> AC: useful in understanding doc to address what is appropriate.

<laura> …and unappropriate.

*Laura I can take over scribing

<laura> thanks

JF: could wrap autocomplete off but could still use autocomplete name or what have you to meet 1.3.5 but turn of complete functionality
... you can tell browser to not fill out form but still use autocomplete on individual fields.

<Detlev> I would explicitly suggest to cover the case of a page with input areas for several users (the aforementioned travel booking example) - and if it is not clear that the user him/herself comes first I would at the current stat od things PASS a page that does not use autocomplete on any of them

AC: Reflow is next SC
... potential techniques left: reflowing simple data tables. Jake at TPAC was skeptical if it would work. We might leave that one for the moment
... another fitting data cells within the width of the viewport.
... does anyone have CSS skills for tackling that one?
... Might have reasonable coverage. Is anyone aware of things that people are struggling with?

Detlev: Do we have case of reflow cause disappearance of content such as menu or drop down.

ac: add failure when content has reflowed

<alastairc> JonA: The one I see a lot is video or other pop-up content appearing on top of text. A lot of these don't let you close them until 10 second in. When zoomed in, no way to get rid of it. Zoomed out, doesn't block other content.

<alastairc> JonA: Can send a link around

BN: as viewport gets smaller authors will result to CSS truncation.

AC: probably two cases: disappearing or truncated? Would anyone like to take that on?

<laura> s/description /description /

AC: doesn't necessarily need a working example if it's a failure

<laura> s/lmited /limited /

<scribe> ACTION: Detlev to take it on reflow failure if it a working example is not needed.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-342 - Take it on reflow failure if it a working example is not needed. [on Detlev Fischer - due 2018-12-11].

AC: Need for techniques for contrasting lines between adjoining colors
... David is assigned to losing content when text styles is applied
... Detlev covered content on hover or focus
... Asking about character key shortcut which were drafted by someone on mobile TF but not sure where they are. Who might know?

<alastairc> AC: Contact Kim

AC: we have draft from Detlev on point gestures. We have a potential failure due to functionality that can be operated by pointer input but not single pointer alone.

Rachael: asking about working example for 2nd -- will handle failure with text.
... working in document form - in progress.

AC: Status messages is last AA one. We have a lot published for this. Can't see any other high priority.
... At AAA. Might be more difficult to do. Straight to Timeout -- probably text description rather than working examples.

<alastairc> Volunteers for "Provide a warning of the duration of user inactivity at the start of a process."?

AC: Providing a warning of the duration before the start of a process - any volunteers?
... leave there which people can self assign or let me know so we don't get duplicate. AC to update spreadsheet.
... Any other comments or questions on techniques?

Detlev: Renew call to look at JavaScript in sufficient technique.

<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/543

Check in on WCAG2ICT

<david-macdonald> http://davidmacd.com/WCAG/wcag2ict-21-discussion.html

DM: Made a pass at reviewing it. Need to get other eyes to look at.

MG: Had filled in the survey.

AC: May need to get into some sort of draft.

Any other business

AC: Anything else people want to raise? Comment/question?
... Look at spreadsheet and consider taking one and take one and draft something. Thank you.

<alastairc> trackbot end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Detlev to take it on reflow failure if it a working example is not needed.
 

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: alastairc, Detlev, Rachael, Laura, Brooks, MichaelC, Mike_Elledge, MarcJohlic, stevelee, gowerm, JF, kirkwood, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Glenda

WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: alastairc, stevelee, Skotkjerra, EA, Makoto)
Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
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Present: alastairc Detlev Rachael Laura Brooks MichaelC Mike_Elledge MarcJohlic stevelee gowerm JF kirkwood Katie_Haritos-Shea Glenda
Regrets: Chuck Bruce Jake
Found Scribe: Laura
Inferring ScribeNick: laura
Found Scribe: jon_avila
Inferring ScribeNick: jon_avila
Scribes: Laura, jon_avila
ScribeNicks: laura, jon_avila
Found Date: 04 Dec 2018
People with action items: detlev

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