Last weeks work was in this document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aBoQ1HDindVnFk_7Ljp-whpK3zAiqAdgJxsgpqsNpgU/edit#heading=h.imldn9ebvi3e
Jeanne: This is a brainstorming
document
... I created a new document for the alt text example
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IK83Gfxz01zFWgNtaCWCL0LeBqhu9DudyWp_IwovWc0/edit
Auto-WCAG rule: Image has an accessible name https://auto-wcag.github.io/auto-wcag/rules/SC1-1-1-image-has-name.html
Jeanne: talking about Auto-WCAG test.
Charles: When governance overlaps
with scale, it becomes unmanagable to put them into the
guidance.
... this example is very specific to HTML
... if we followed a format like this we wouldn't be able to
keep up with the scale.
Jeanne: This would be a part of a method
Charles: But this would proliferate the Methods
Shawn: This is what we are trying to work out with this prototype. We would want to have Methods be higher level than the tests. So we wouldn't want to have a comprehensive list of all the ways we can meet this particular guideline.
Jeanne: David had an interesting idea that we could write Methods for existing technology, and then write one Method for for new technology that is more like a success criterion.
Shawn: I disagree. That is just moving success criteria to the Methods level. The user need is in the Guideline, and the person who is creating a new method has to have their own burden of proof that they satisfy the user need.
[some back and forth about this concept]
Shawn: for the image alt text
example
... the Google docs document uses images, it doesn't use an
<img> tag. Everyone has access to the alternative text,
but it isn't following any method normally used.
Charles: So if this example isn't in a Method, how do they claim it without a catch-all Method.
Shawn: A catch-all Method would perpetuate that the problem we have today. The onus is on the organization that uses this new Method.
Charles: So how would they prove it?
Shawn: If it is in a VPAT, they would say that they did something different and document it. They can write it in their documentation. If it is a legal case, they would have to put it in the legal document. What they do, depends on the context.
Charles: Do they ever get incorporated back into the guidance?
Shawn: Sometimes. In this example it would not, because the Google docs document is a proprietary technology that others don't use. If someone came up with an example that is a new way to add an image in HTML, then it would be included in the Silver Methods.
Jennison: I like the idea of keeping it open, but what would happen if someone claimed conformance and someone else thought it would not be, what do we do?
Shawn: We would have to sort it out. The Method might be valid, but we wouldn't want to include it. It could also be duking it out in court. Or it gets worked out in the accessibility community
Jeanne: I would like (down the road) to empower the accessibility community to vote new Methods up and down and have them work out what is best.
Shawn: That would be a valuable way to manage the scaling
Charles: What about using a picture without an image element? Like a Kiosk
Shawn: If they create a new kiosk
OS that has a different lamguage, then they still have to meet
the user need.
... we can't expect people in the working group to be expert in
so many technologies
Charles: Doesn't this raise the problem that Wilco raised about the cost of testing Silver?
Shawn: Only for new technologies
that aren't using existing Methods.
... that wouldn't mandate more work and cost, but it would
allow them to create new methods if they had a reason to do
it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IK83Gfxz01zFWgNtaCWCL0LeBqhu9DudyWp_IwovWc0/edit#
Jeanne: What I wanted to accomplish by bringing up the example of the ACT rule, is that the more granualar the tests are --- not the Methods -- the better we can explore the edge cases. That helps us write better Methods and Guidelines, which helps keep the cost down.
charles: I am concerned about the number of tests, and needing to number them.
Shawn: I share your concern.
Keeping it so it isn't 100 Methods for a given piece of
guidance.
... I have less of a clear image in my mind about the
tests
... the tests are hierarchical, and there are a lot of
them.
... I don't have a good answer for that yet.
... I want to get more information as we work through the
examples.
Jeanne: I would assume that we are not going to give automated test information to any user who isn't working on automated tests?
Shawn: We need to figure out the level testing that we have for each Method. We want it to be concrete enough to be useful.
Charles: granular is more consumable, it is the scale that concerns me.
Jennsion: this discussion is about how to display it -- the presentation of it all. We don't want to overwhelm people with information, but we want to give people what they want in chunks or drill down.
Shawn: we need to think about how we want to give them the information and how they will find it.
Jeanne: Please take a look at the
Conformance Example of Images need Alternative text
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IK83Gfxz01zFWgNtaCWCL0LeBqhu9DudyWp_IwovWc0/edit#
... and start entering your ideas and thoughts for tests.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/(continued)// FAILED: s/scribe: for the image alt text example/Shawn: for the image alt text example/ Succeeded: s/... for the image alt text example/Shawn: for the image alt text example/ Succeeded: s|s/scribe: for the image alt text example/Shawn: for the image alt text example|| Present: jeanne Jennison Charles Makoto KimD AngelaAccessForAll kirkwood Shawn Regrets: Luis No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: jeanne Inferring Scribes: jeanne WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Found Date: 27 Nov 2018 People with action items: WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]