<thaddeus> +present
<stevelee_> webEx is not working for me
<Becka11y> I can’t login to W3c account today?
<Lisa_> scribe: jf
<scribe> scribe: JF
<Lisa_> zakim item
<Lisa_> zakim next item
LS: started to updae the short
list on the wiki page
... we should double-check to ensure we are on the same
page
<stevelee> lisa tha tpage is a new page?
LS: AUI attributes are still on
<stevelee> scratch that - trailing " (again)
LS: may be the same attribute
list minus the AUI prefix
... we may change the prefix - if we go that route we can
discuss that then
... looks like we are moving away from a single attribute in
favor of perhaps 3 (toxens, string text, URI)
... many of the other options were also dropped after TPAC
JS: how much of the vocabulary is
complete at this time? 80%, 90%, more?
... we don't need to be complete to have the discussion with
Web Plat
LS: any concerns moving forward?
- none -
<Lisa_> context="critical fieldFamilyName" easylang="Last name" refrences="blis.org/1046236"
LS: if we look at the 3 attributes - provided some PoC examples here
JF: expressing concerns about
complexity of using 3 attribues as part of authoring
... concerns about the examples. Space separated values versus
comma-separated; the example shows 3 attributes for one
example
SL: confused about how this is
emerging. At TPAC we talked about one attribute "@purpose"
which could be re-used by others as well
... and then the values is its own "sub-language" which is then
attached to the element
LS: the question now is how it is attached to HTML
SL: yes, but are we using more than one attribute
LS: we ruled out micro-syntax, so now we have 2 current proposals
the first is lots of attributes (as we had started with), or the other is to have 3 attributes, which we proposed to Web Plat: one that takes a token value, one that takes string text, and one that takes an URI
LS: the question now is, will that work?
<thaddeus> im taking myself off the speaker queue
Tokens look like they can work, URIs may not. The text attribute... maybe
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask about structure of the doc
JS: this strikes me that this
document is still unclear as to what it is trying to say.
Concerned that the Web Plat folks won't understand it
... we need something less complex
... believe we need to list out the types of content, the types
of data we want to communicate.
The question we have for Web Plat is what is the best method to do this, not to offer them suggestions
+1 to Janina
<Lisa_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/value-list/vocabulary-list/index.html
LS: want to clarify that this document is not intended for Web Plat, but rather for our internal discussion
Thad: not sure why we don't work on examples during the week, so that we have something to discuss without confusion
LS: yes, that 's the hope
... for clarification - is having more than one value in
"context="" " is indeed a microsyntax
CL: not sure if that would work
JS: which is why we need to show what we need to share, rather than a mechanism for doing so
LS: would like to look at the
multiple value attribute, to offer that as an option
... was unsure of the process - are we proposing something
and/or waiting for Web Plat to make a decision
... it's now been 60 days, and we should be looking at examples
now - we need implementations
Becky: still a little unclear. We should be looking at use-cases, written down in words.
Then we can show that to Web Plat folks etc.
<Lisa_> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/value-list/vocabulary-list/index.html
LS: we should look at what we
have now. We may not get to 80%, but perhaps more than
50%
... counter-proposal - we try to reduce the number of attribute
values, but not down to just 3. Suggest that 'where we can' we
have a general purpose attribute, and when that doesn't work we
have a specialized attribute
and we may get the "main" one added to Web Plat, but the other specialized one(s) may not
CL: the list is not yet currated to show which value type they may be. The is not what we would share with Web Plat
JS: this seems to keep coming back to context. Not sure which meeting, but there was a prior discussion about competing goals
we seem to be trying to meet both of them: the long range "what is the best standardization approach" - wqhich we discussed with Web Plat
versus "gee, I have a grant and I need to deliver a deliverable" and I need somthing now
both are meaningful. The latter proves need, but the first one is extensible
LS: I don't see it as that
different. But we seem to have been ignoring the fact that we
told implementers a year ago to wait, and now it's seems to be
stalling
... now Atos, who had done a PoC, have taken their examples
down
... we are losing implementor support
... we seem to be down to one proposal
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to note that we have two competing goals
CL: agree with most of the points made. We're stuck in a hard place, this hasn't been tried before. Looking down the road is critical, but so is implementation.
Looking at the wiki page, it's illustrating some of the important things. The value pairs seems to be the easiest (if we allow space separated)
LS: would like to move on to next steps
CL: was expecting something different in the wikie page
was expecting the values, and not the examples of how to implement. I just updated the short-list
LS: disagrees with the history. We gave this list to implementers earlier
JS: the history is an ongoing problem at the W3C - now versus in the future, and what we have now will likely not be the final word
LS: straw poll to see if we can't do 3 attributes, but we would need more?
CL: wouldn't we need to see where the conflicts/problems are?
we need the use-cases to show that we can or cannot do something
so that then we can see whether space separated (or comma separated) are required
LS: but would that be true? Could we ever see a time when an attribute needed to do multiple things?
CL: that's what we need to determine
LS: sounds like we need use cases
then
... anyone want to volunteer to write up use-cases
Becky: I can try, but I'm still struggling to get this all, as I have no previous experience
If I had one or two examples, I could try working from there
LS: how do we define the use-cases and allocate them?
CL: that's a good question
LS: use-cases? how do we allocate them? who can write them up?
CL: homework for everyone on the call, to write one or two use-cases. Don't try and figure out the solution, but clearly articulate the needs
<Lisa_> https://rawgit.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/requirements/requirements/index.html#abstract
<scribe> ACTION: on the group, each person to write one or two use-cases. Discussion, link to the voc terms
LS: we have two examples, one with multiple attributes, and one with as few attributes as possible (i.e. the two we have on our short list)
may not be perfect, but it's a good start and a move forward
<scribe> ACTION: Lisa to establish a wiki page to collect the use-cases
trackbot, end meeting
trackbot, end meeting
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