Intros on individuals and brief summary of Neutral Vehicle
Ulf: we have been looking at the
W3C Vehicle API for almost two years now as we had a need
ourselves
... our interest/needs align well and we joined the
organization
... as we start on a second version spec, proposed an open
source implementation and would like to wide collaborate
Henrik: there were good discussions in Lyon and people are excited about the work
Glenn: I would like Neil to
introduce Geotab followed by Dan who is leading NV
... we can discuss a wishlist of potential related projects
Ulf: before Henrik leaves we should discuss university participation
Neil: I am an engineer and also
the CEO of Geotab
... we are a private company with no capital investment with
584 people, mostly engineering
... our focus is on device implementation, data sampling and
data backend. we have 1.4M vehicles, AT&T, UPS, Enterprise,
Pepsi, Telefonica, BT and expanding
... our philosophy is different, we believe strongly in open
standards instead of a proprietary solution
... in EV space we are seeing a distressing trend wherein they
are all taking proprietary approach. standards will work and
think all on the call understand that
... the only way you have a clear set of standards is to bring
in expertise from OEM, W3C, academia and solution providers
like us who have 15 years of experience in this space
... we understand how this data is used by fleets to run their
business better. we are willing to put significant effort in
this activity
... we want to see how we can enable it going forward
Glenn: Dan, can you give an overview of NV?
Dan: Geotab has done considerable
work on standards and open solutions including providing expertise
to the Neutral
Vehicle (NV) effort
... presently I am at the University of Colorado, previously US
DHS
... what we do is bring together an interesting, unique
collection of people
... we are happy to bring our telematics expertise to the
table
... my real passion is the privacy and cybersecurity aspects of
this as a essential component
... we have some interesting initial working going on
already
... I have been in cybersecurity for a long time and a
proponent of open instead of closed solutions
… closed approach is
not really secure as the expertise is limited to the company
that created it, lacks peer review and susceptible to hackers
reverse engineering
Dan: we are very interested in university collaboration including EU although that would prevent DHS, NAS involvement as that funding is limited to US institutions
Henrik: Halmstad University on the west coast of
Sweden is where I have some good contacts
... we want to start with common ground and an open source
implementation
... as a sidenote, you must have seen the debate on open APIs
and value of data
... we are discussing whether all data should go through Volvo
servers
Neil: the concept of data
ownership is part of that debate. the pieces of data needed for
fleets, insurance etc
... we want to be able to do very specific analytics
... OEM should also collect information for themselves. there
is a whole new world for data and applications
Ted: on the topic of whose data servers,
yes OEM can and should be warehousing data, enter partnerships and try
to monetize it
... it is however impossible to predict what data points will
address all intended interests
... for instance I know another provider
does data collection for several major OEMs and collects a set of data
points at a fixed, regular interval. One of the clever things Geotab
does, there is a youtube video somewhere I'll find and link to minutes,
is read battery voltage every few milliseconds as the car is starting
and from interpreting it can predict if battery or alternator are
approaching failure
... also think of regulators wanting to collect information based on
certain data events. you will also want to be able to allow for third
party applications that individual OEM vet and approve to run
applications on their vehicles.
Glenn: what specifically would be
on Volvo's wishlist to prove out the VISS standard and address
some sample use cases?
... we would like your perspective
Neil: we have to do normalization across existing OEMs and presently collect data from our devices and could easily expand on that for a common solution
Dan: I want to reinforce Neil's comments. we have some very interesting resources at UC, Geotab and potentially these other universities
Ulf: as an OEM representative to
W3C, happy to provide my perspective which will be broader than
just Volvo's
... when I brought up proposal of creating an open source
project is this is first of all fun but also benefits the
standard as it evolves
... it might reveal some areas for improvement as we go alone
and can refine the standard before it is finalized
... this implementation work can be done as a standalone
project on the VISS2 standard itself
... when Glenn proposed this collaboration, it is quite
interesting
... we want to address real use cases and aligning with NV
Henrik: I agree and would like to
see an implementation as soon as possible including proof of
handling security when bringing in trusted and untrusted third
parties
... we want to expand the circle of engineers that can work on
an early implementation will be extremely valuable
Neil: in an ideal world you can
add an implementation on an OBD2 device and could be an early
short term goal
... that can be done very quickly
Henrik departs for another meeting and will follow up with Swedish University contacts
Ulf: this API will hopefully be agnostic as to where it is deployed, it can be in the car and on the cloud not to mention the underlying ECU
Neil: it would be quickest way to
get started. we can add an implementation on our devices and
retrofit existing vehicles with this standard
... presently we are waiting for industry adoption which is
several years out and misses existing vehicles
... I understand what you are saying about it being transparent
where it is. we can build out something quickly in the cloud as
well
... you can imagine a world in the future that allows
applications to run on the head unit against this
standard
... but before that exists you can have something like a Geotab
device, other telematics providers as well
... user can then run an application on their phone
... this is the path we imagine
Ulf: I agree with what you say.
one thing we haven't discussed is the sccope of this
project
... the vision you describe is broader. it should be open
source with a liberal license so others can use it
Neil: what would the code on
github be?
... how would you handle normalizing data from legacy vehicles?
where would the code run and what would it do?
Ulf: the VSS data model presents
a framework for accessing it
... once you have the tree you need to map it to underlying
data sources and that last piece will be OEM dependent
... we need to keep it abstract
... I have some proposals on how this can be done
... we want to test what we do with true data fed into it
... cloud based implementation would make sense and allow
client applications to use it
Neil: that is exactly what we are
thinking
... we would provide a VISS server side implementation
... it could go against OBD2 or other telematics device
... our goals are the same
Ted: VISSv2 can be implemented in the vehicle, on an OBD2 device (for legacy), in the cloud but there are also a number of prospective tangible, complimentary projects.
Glenn: please include those in the minutes so we can summarize what we can do and present that to the broader group
Ted: will do
Glenn: Stefano, you mentioned a possible digital twin of the vehicle in VISS format
Stefano: yes, VSS is the data dictionary and VISS is how to expose it. you can expose this data on the vehicle and on the cloud side
Ulf: that is a possiblity and could make sense
Stefano: in our first implementation we could expose a car to the cloud
Glenn: we have about ten minutes
left and need to consolidate and figure out how to present this
to the group
... we can perhaps turn it into a presentation to the group at
a future meeting. does that make sense?
Ulf/Neil: yes
Neil broadcasts screen of an open source project that uses a BT / OBD2 device
Neil: it provides considerable
information and we should follow up with them after we have
something tangible
... I am unsure of the licensing on this Panda device
Ted: absolutely, we should reach out to this and other projects like AutoPi, Vin.li and others
Neil: we need to increase knowledge of the standard and promote it
Ulf: absolutely
... I feel your enthusiasm and appreciate it
... I that is perhaps a second step and maybe work on a smaller
scope and wait until we get something useable
Neil: agree, makes sense
Glenn: thank you for this
collaboration and discussion, please provide follow up thoughts
as appropriate
... any last comments?
Ulf: this was a very good meeting and want to continue in this manner
Neil: I agree 100%
Glenn: thank you
[adjourned]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Niel/Neil/ Present: Dan_Massey Glenn Neil_Cawse Dirk_Schlimm Stefano Benjamin Ted Ulf Henrik Magnus No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: ted Inferring Scribes: ted WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Found Date: 21 Nov 2018 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]