Automotive Open Source Project Call

21 Nov 2018


Dan_Massey, Glenn, Neil_Cawse, Dirk_Schlimm, Stefano, Benjamin, Ted, Ulf, Henrik, Magnus
Glenn, Ulf


Intros on individuals and brief summary of Neutral Vehicle

Ulf: we have been looking at the W3C Vehicle API for almost two years now as we had a need ourselves
... our interest/needs align well and we joined the organization
... as we start on a second version spec, proposed an open source implementation and would like to wide collaborate

Henrik: there were good discussions in Lyon and people are excited about the work

Glenn: I would like Neil to introduce Geotab followed by Dan who is leading NV
... we can discuss a wishlist of potential related projects

Ulf: before Henrik leaves we should discuss university participation

Neil: I am an engineer and also the CEO of Geotab
... we are a private company with no capital investment with 584 people, mostly engineering
... our focus is on device implementation, data sampling and data backend. we have 1.4M vehicles, AT&T, UPS, Enterprise, Pepsi, Telefonica, BT and expanding
... our philosophy is different, we believe strongly in open standards instead of a proprietary solution
... in EV space we are seeing a distressing trend wherein they are all taking proprietary approach. standards will work and think all on the call understand that
... the only way you have a clear set of standards is to bring in expertise from OEM, W3C, academia and solution providers like us who have 15 years of experience in this space
... we understand how this data is used by fleets to run their business better. we are willing to put significant effort in this activity
... we want to see how we can enable it going forward

Glenn: Dan, can you give an overview of NV?

Dan: Geotab has done considerable work on standards and open solutions including providing expertise to the Neutral Vehicle (NV) effort
... presently I am at the University of Colorado, previously US DHS
... what we do is bring together an interesting, unique collection of people
... we are happy to bring our telematics expertise to the table
... my real passion is the privacy and cybersecurity aspects of this as a essential component
... we have some interesting initial working going on already
... I have been in cybersecurity for a long time and a proponent of open instead of closed solutions
… closed approach is not really secure as the expertise is limited to the company that created it, lacks peer review and susceptible to hackers reverse engineering

Dan: we are very interested in university collaboration including EU although that would prevent DHS, NAS involvement as that funding is limited to US institutions

Henrik: Halmstad University on the west coast of Sweden is where I have some good contacts
... we want to start with common ground and an open source implementation
... as a sidenote, you must have seen the debate on open APIs and value of data
... we are discussing whether all data should go through Volvo servers

Neil: the concept of data ownership is part of that debate. the pieces of data needed for fleets, insurance etc
... we want to be able to do very specific analytics
... OEM should also collect information for themselves. there is a whole new world for data and applications

Ted: on the topic of whose data servers, yes OEM can and should be warehousing data, enter partnerships and try to monetize it
... it is however impossible to predict what data points will address all intended interests
... for instance I know another provider does data collection for several major OEMs and collects a set of data points at a fixed, regular interval. One of the clever things Geotab does, there is a youtube video somewhere I'll find and link to minutes, is read battery voltage every few milliseconds as the car is starting and from interpreting it can predict if battery or alternator are approaching failure
... also think of regulators wanting to collect information based on certain data events. you will also want to be able to allow for third party applications that individual OEM vet and approve to run applications on their vehicles.

Glenn: what specifically would be on Volvo's wishlist to prove out the VISS standard and address some sample use cases?
... we would like your perspective

Neil: we have to do normalization across existing OEMs and presently collect data from our devices and could easily expand on that for a common solution

Dan: I want to reinforce Neil's comments. we have some very interesting resources at UC, Geotab and potentially these other universities

Ulf: as an OEM representative to W3C, happy to provide my perspective which will be broader than just Volvo's
... when I brought up proposal of creating an open source project is this is first of all fun but also benefits the standard as it evolves
... it might reveal some areas for improvement as we go alone and can refine the standard before it is finalized
... this implementation work can be done as a standalone project on the VISS2 standard itself
... when Glenn proposed this collaboration, it is quite interesting
... we want to address real use cases and aligning with NV

Henrik: I agree and would like to see an implementation as soon as possible including proof of handling security when bringing in trusted and untrusted third parties
... we want to expand the circle of engineers that can work on an early implementation will be extremely valuable

Neil: in an ideal world you can add an implementation on an OBD2 device and could be an early short term goal
... that can be done very quickly

Henrik departs for another meeting and will follow up with Swedish University contacts

Ulf: this API will hopefully be agnostic as to where it is deployed, it can be in the car and on the cloud not to mention the underlying ECU

Neil: it would be quickest way to get started. we can add an implementation on our devices and retrofit existing vehicles with this standard
... presently we are waiting for industry adoption which is several years out and misses existing vehicles
... I understand what you are saying about it being transparent where it is. we can build out something quickly in the cloud as well
... you can imagine a world in the future that allows applications to run on the head unit against this standard
... but before that exists you can have something like a Geotab device, other telematics providers as well
... user can then run an application on their phone
... this is the path we imagine

Ulf: I agree with what you say. one thing we haven't discussed is the sccope of this project
... the vision you describe is broader. it should be open source with a liberal license so others can use it

Neil: what would the code on github be?
... how would you handle normalizing data from legacy vehicles? where would the code run and what would it do?

Ulf: the VSS data model presents a framework for accessing it
... once you have the tree you need to map it to underlying data sources and that last piece will be OEM dependent
... we need to keep it abstract
... I have some proposals on how this can be done
... we want to test what we do with true data fed into it
... cloud based implementation would make sense and allow client applications to use it

Neil: that is exactly what we are thinking
... we would provide a VISS server side implementation
... it could go against OBD2 or other telematics device
... our goals are the same

Ted: VISSv2 can be implemented in the vehicle, on an OBD2 device (for legacy), in the cloud but there are also a number of prospective tangible, complimentary projects.

Glenn: please include those in the minutes so we can summarize what we can do and present that to the broader group

Ted: will do

Glenn: Stefano, you mentioned a possible digital twin of the vehicle in VISS format

Stefano: yes, VSS is the data dictionary and VISS is how to expose it. you can expose this data on the vehicle and on the cloud side

Ulf: that is a possiblity and could make sense

Stefano: in our first implementation we could expose a car to the cloud

Glenn: we have about ten minutes left and need to consolidate and figure out how to present this to the group
... we can perhaps turn it into a presentation to the group at a future meeting. does that make sense?

Ulf/Neil: yes

Neil broadcasts screen of an open source project that uses a BT / OBD2 device

Neil: it provides considerable information and we should follow up with them after we have something tangible
... I am unsure of the licensing on this Panda device

Ted: absolutely, we should reach out to this and other projects like AutoPi, Vin.li and others

Neil: we need to increase knowledge of the standard and promote it

Ulf: absolutely
... I feel your enthusiasm and appreciate it
... I that is perhaps a second step and maybe work on a smaller scope and wait until we get something useable

Neil: agree, makes sense

Glenn: thank you for this collaboration and discussion, please provide follow up thoughts as appropriate
... any last comments?

Ulf: this was a very good meeting and want to continue in this manner

Neil: I agree 100%

Glenn: thank you


Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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