W3C

- DRAFT -

SVG Working Group Teleconference

05 Nov 2018

Attendees

Present
krit, AmeliaBR, Tavmjong, SairusPatel, ericwilligers
Regrets
Chair
krit
Scribe
AmeliaBR

Contents


<krit> present SairusPatel

<scribe> scribenick: AmeliaBR

New Members

Dirk: As of last week, we have Myles joining the WG from Apple. He's particularly interested in a limited SVG spec for fonts. And we have Sairus from Adobe.

Sairus: I'm Adobe's lead on OpenType project. So I've been working with Sairus and Dean at Adobe on the SVG OpenType spec.

SVGGeometry.prototype.isPointInStroke vs. vector-effects

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/559

<SairusPatel> "Myles & Dean at Apple" should be: "Myles & Dean at Apple". I may have misspoken

s/"Sairus & Dean at Adobe" should be: "Myles & Dean at Apple". I may have misspoken//

Dirk: Question is whether vector-effect is just a visual effect or whether it actually affects geometry, and therefore hit-testing and the API.
... I'd like to get a resolution to adopt fsoder's recommendation: vector-effect should affect these APIs.

Amelia: Agree that's ideal. Only concern was implementation cost, but I think browsers are already doing all the calculations so there shouldn't be much overhead.

Dirk: I don't think there is any implementation concern.

RESOLUTION: vector-effects property contributes to hit-testing and `isPointInStroke`.

vector-effects at-risk status

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/306

Dirk: The spec has many other values for vector-effects, which were marked at risk because of lack of implementations.
... We now have a browser implementation (Firefox), plus also JavaScript implementations.

Tav: And these are independent?

Dirk: Yes.

Tav: I'm also planning to work on an implementation in Inkscape.

Eric: Are there tests merged into WPT, or is this specifically the PR that is currently open?

Tav: I suspect those are the tests we're talking about.

Amelia: Might be merged tests for non-scaling-stroke.

<ericwilligers> vector-effects tests that need review: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/13302

Dirk: You'll want to check with the Firefox people, since they would have made some for their implementation.
... So, question is: can we remove the "at risk" flag.

Tav: We had previously agreed that JS implementations do count for PR status.

Amelia: Is there any harm in keeping it at-risk for now? Does that prevent going to PR status?

Eric: Has anyone looked at the polyfill? Is it high quality for production sites?

Dirk: There's a link on the issue (#306). I haven't looked at it carefully.

Eric: It looks good at a glance. I think we can count it as an implementation.

Amelia: Still need to do full testing.

Dirk: But that's true for many features.

RESOLUTION: Remove "at-risk" flag for vector-effects in SVG 2.

New sizing keywords in SVG geometry properties

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/469

Amelia: CSS has introduced new keywords for `width` and `height`. Since we re-use those properties for SVG geometry, we need to define what happens when they're used. My recommendation is to follow TabAtkins' suggestion & treat as `auto`.
... Confusion is that `auto` means different things on different SVG elements.

Dirk: Second question is where to define. If CSS adds additional keywords in the future, how to handle them? Shouldn't the spec say how the keyword behaves?

Eric: Can't we just say that all new keywords act as auto?

Dirk: But maybe certain keywords in future would make sense to have a different value.

Amelia: What about: "Any other keyword values behave as auto for SVG elements, unless otherwise defined in the spec that introduces them."?

Dirk, Eric: OK

RESOLUTION: New CSS sizing keywords behave like auto for SVG elements, unless spec'd otherwise when they are defined

`d` as a property (at-risk status)

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/pull/374

Eric: I've updated the PR to reflect different syntax for the attribute.

Amelia: I'll try to take a look at that.

Eric: Issue for today is, can we get a second implementation in time for PR?

Tav: I'd be willing to do it for Inkscape.

Eric: Are there any polyfills?

Dirk, Tav: Not that we know of.

Amelia: The main stumbling block for implementations in browsers, I think, was discrepancy between spec and shipped implementation in Chrome. Now that is sorted, we need to poke browser tracking issues again.

Dirk: So, first step is to merge that PR to get the up-to-date spec.
... And then we can review status again before going to proposed Rec

RESOLUTION: Keep `d` as geometry property in SVG 2, merging the amendments previously agreed upon after review

(discussion about difficulty implementing in Inkscape)

decode() and decoding attribute to SVGImageElement

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/373

Dirk: As discussed in the issue, I think this probably can be deferred to a future spec.

Amelia: Issue is a new feature was added to HTMLImageElement, request was to harmonize.

Dirk: Question is, is there any harm in deferring? Would it be easier for implementations to harmonize sooner.

Eric: If no one has implemented it yet, we should defer it.

Amelia: Bigger issue is should we try to work with HTML working groups so that when these things get added, they get added to both elements at the same time?

Dirk: And that goes beyond the image elements. We've had the same issue with A element, for example.

Eric: But we wouldn't want to be holding up future work for HTML.

RESOLUTION: No new API features / attributes for SVGImageElement in SVG 2.0.

Proposed: Work with HTML standards on better coordination for paired elements that should have common functionality, e.g., through IDL mixins.

RESOLUTION: Work with HTML standards groups on better coordination for paired SVG/HTML elements that should have common functionality, e.g., through IDL mixins.

github-bot, end topic

<ericwilligers> github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/574

pointer-events

github: https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/574

Eric: What's the history of this property? Browsers support `auto` but it's not in the spec.

Amelia: I don't think SVG ever defined `auto`. But the property in general is under-spec'd. It's only defined for SVG, but it's supported for other elements in a way that isn't defined anywhere.

Dirk: I think it used to be in CSS UI. Should probably be there again. But we still need to define what `auto` means for SVG elements.

Eric: MDN is fairly clear that `auto` means `visiblePainted` for SVG elements. So the initial value doesn't change in practice.

RESOLUTION: Add `auto` as initial value for `pointer-events`, and define it to behave as `visiblePainted`

Eric: I can make those edits.

Amelia: We should also push the CSS WG to spec it separately, with definitions for non-SVG elements.

Eric: I can follow up after I've made the edits.

trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. vector-effects property contributes to hit-testing and `isPointInStroke`.
  2. Remove "at-risk" flag for vector-effects in SVG 2.
  3. New CSS sizing keywords behave like auto for SVG elements, unless spec'd otherwise when they are defined
  4. Keep `d` as geometry property in SVG 2, merging the amendments previously agreed upon after review
  5. No new API features / attributes for SVGImageElement in SVG 2.0.
  6. Work with HTML standards groups on better coordination for paired SVG/HTML elements that should have common functionality, e.g., through IDL mixins.
  7. Add `auto` as initial value for `pointer-events`, and define it to behave as `visiblePainted`
[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.154 (CVS log)
$Date: 2018/11/05 21:51:32 $

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Succeeded: s/Sairus & Dean at Adobe/Myles & Dean at Apple/
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Default Present: krit, AmeliaBR, Tavmjong, SairusPatel, ericwilligers
Present: krit AmeliaBR Tavmjong SairusPatel ericwilligers
Found ScribeNick: AmeliaBR
Inferring Scribes: AmeliaBR
Found Date: 05 Nov 2018
People with action items: 

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