Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference -- 02 Nov 2018

<scribe> Scribe: Sharron

Face to Face TPAC

Brent: Rather than a detailed summary, we posted the minutes and ask everyone a chance to skim those and allow time if people have any comments or questions about what we dicussed.
... anyone need more detail?
... We had a good intro from Shadi about the WAI-Guide project, reviewed outreach efforts, looked at some ongoing wok like the UI components, Understanding docs, ARIA< translations, etc. We will discuss outreach.

Chris: I don't have alot to add. For the most part, I think it was productive and Brent and I have talked since then about the next steps for the Understanding docs.

Brent: The small team of the UnDoc group met with AG and as we told them our process, they indicated they would like a few times of back and forth. It seemed that request would really extend the time needed. So we talked about ti with the planning team, we determined we would make the best draft we couldcome up with and send it to them for accept/reject and avoid the back and forth that could

lengthen the process.

scribe: Chris talked to John Foliot of AG who gave examples of how one word could significantly change meaning.

Chris: In respect to the Re-flow discussion, he said that if you removed "Css" from the phrase "CSS pixels" it would change the meaning. I understood more clearly and still feel that we need to avoid the back and forth. It occured that an approach may be to ask for points, phrases, words they don't want to have changed. Rather than the back and forth.
... In the end, it will be their decision. We will give them a draft and they an accept/reject whatever part they want.

Brent: Yes, I think this is a good approach.

<yatil> +1 – I support this approach.

Shawn: I want to support the most efficient and avoid the back and forth. It has the potential to be not very useful. Would support that the UNDoc group just make the draft, allow AG descretion and make it super clear that it is up to them.I think that will make it a better process for both you and them. Not to put the burden on them to get back to us with feedback, etc.

Brent: Yes I think we can make that work and thank you Chris for your thoughts and contribution on this.
... any other thoughts or questions?

Outreach

Brent: The background is that we often look at outreach during the face to face meetings, considering things that are coming about to publish or generally not known about. When a resource is complete, we have a standard process for letting people know about new resources and so we focused on how to improve more general outreach. We considered video, social media, articles in journals and magazines

and had ideas and generated excitement.

scribe: Recall that we had developed a fairly rich outreach plan a few years ago,started good out of the gate but then fizzled over time. Decided we might do best to focus on just one outreach method/channel at a time and then have outreach as a standing agenda item. As we get good at the one channel we could add additional outlets or methods.
... so I wanted to explain where we landed and get feedback about the idea in general, see if someone wants to lead, and make more specific plans for going forward.
... anyone want to add anything about the meeting?

Chris: I am not really sure where to get started on this. As a group, we need to determine if there are under appreciated resources, I think we have a bit more specifics about teh approach.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask one channel versus xyz and to say +1 for approach

<Chris> +1 to Shawn's comment

<rjolly> +1 to Shawn's idea of one message across multiple channels

Shawn: I wanted to say +1 to general approach about starting small and growing over time. You said one channel as a beginnign but maybe instead the limiting aspect is the fact of taking just one resource.

<shawn> s/Instead one channel as a beginning, maybe instead the limiting aspect is the fact of taking just one message or one resource.

Sharron: Agree we need clarification about the approach

<Chris> Can we add our existing social networks to the WAI site?

Eric: I agree that the focus should be on just one resource and emphasize that the information is coming froma trusted source.

Brent: Yes, an important element is the need for leadership, please let the Chairs know if you have interest in leading this campaign. Not that you would have to write everything, but think about the whole thing more strategically. As well we need to think about approach.

Shawn: We have two new resources.

Laura: We should always look at metrics, see what happens when we promote. If we have an underutilized or new resources, set a baseline and see how it changes with the outreach effort.
... see how effective the promotion really is.

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say get traction and regularity, then look at what we want to push

<shawn> +1 for avoiding noise as much as feasible

Eric: In the beginning we want to push out stuff that is new and shiny, get people to understand that we have new items on our publication schedule. Later on we can push the obscure items or underutilized. Want to be careful about that since if we promote things that people find are not useful to *them* they may decide they get only noise from WAI.

KrisAnne: I just wanted to chime in that we need to balance between "Hey what's new" and "Hey did you know that EO has resources to help you ----"

<shawn> +1 for balance on new and updated things as well as things you might not know about

KrisAnne: metrics is important but hopeful that in using that approach people are always finding something useful, avoid the noise. It may be impactful to put something out on LinkedIn, etc the number - EO has # of resources to help your company improve accessibility. Many don't even know about teh new web site.

Brent: Part of the conversation was that we wanted to reach out to the A11y community but also to those who don't know anything about it.

<shawn> +1 for introducing accessibility to people who don't know about it (& our resources) ! ! !

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note new website & WCAG 2.1

KrisAnne: Yes many may know they need to do something but if they search they just get companies that want to sell them services.

Shawn: Within the last week someone replied to a tweet "the new website is awesome." To me it is old news. We talked about doing a 2.1 session at CSUN and the AG thinks "old news" So we need to remember that what to us may seem old is still entirely unknown for many people.

Chris: I wonder if we can please put the social media channel icons on the website?

s/Chrai/Chris

Brent: What do w have?

Chris: YouTube, Twitter

Eric: Only on YouTube becasue of the Perspectives videos.Is not an active channel with new releases, etc.
... I quickly counted from main navigation we have 27 resources but is a bit misleading since some have multiple parts.

<shawn> fyi, YouTube 874 subscribers

<shawn> twitter 7,830

Brent: Need a campaign to get us to the 1M mark

Chris: I did not get an answer to my request for adding icons. It seems like a no-brainer - is there any opposition to that idea?

<Laura> +1 to Chris about adding links to social media

Shawn: No reason not to, what am I missing.

<krisannekinney> +1 to put social media links on teh website.

<shawn> ACTION: shawn add twitter & youtube to wai page/site

Shawn: If there are no concerns, I will put it on my actions and do it.

<trackbot> Created ACTION-391 - Add twitter & youtube to wai page/site [on Shawn Henry - due 2018-11-09].

<shawn> [ W3C site does it so it's "passed" W3C Comm ]

Eric: I think there might have been concerns about vendor neutrality but it is a Twitter link on W3C so I think it is no problem.

<rjolly> FWIW - I'm really interested in this but need to get Policies in good shape before diving in.

Brent: We need to think about a few things - find someone to lead on this, to add it to the meetings every week, even if just for a few minutes.
... and from week to week as outreach ideas occur to you, please capture them, send to planning team or project lead,

W4TW and surveys

<shawn> Shadi said go for it!

Brent: Two open surveys at this time, please take a few minutes to answer them. Another one about to open on the Accessiiblity Statements - will run through 2 Nov 2-12 Nov.
... another survey about to open is around the UI for tanslated pages. Wanted people to be aware, please put blocks of time on your calendar, participate in surveys. Any questions about those or any of the Work for this Week?

Translations

Brent: Many people are interested and excited about the project and wanted to be sure that EO was aware of what is happening here.

Shawn: New topics emerged at the F2F that we had no time to pursue and then a few points came in after the meeting. So we had a teleconference that was very helpful about the UX. I have done a lot more research about how this is handled and the ananlysis of how this is often handled. Next is to take all these ideas, develop a UI and put it out for review, comments, and usability testing.
... if you want to look at the mock-up

<Brent> Mock up of translations: https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/

Shawn: it is here, not a working prototype. Where we are with the proposal is (shares screen) to look at these options, refine based on input, Linked to the original English based on input from stephane. The list of languages is now beneath the navigation, we are considering putting it on the top left as is most common but then thought that we could as well leave it where it is as well - the language

menu would be therefore bein two places on the page.

scribe: any current content will be translated.Links to untranslated resources will be indicated that they are (in English)
... any navigation available in the tranlated language will appear in that language. The untranslated navigation links will remain in English.

Sharron: Any other visual indication of the difference between nav elements that are translated/not translated

<yatil> go on without me, I reconnect

Shawn: not in this propsal

Sharron: Looks great - glad we are doing this!

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say background for two places and to say better to mark non-translated pages

<Brent> +1 to the language menu in two places.

Eric: We should have an icon for things that are not translated for the simple fact that the translated titles may be very similar and hard to see at a glance. If someone does not pick up that there are translations from the menu, they ahve a second chance to get that cue.

Shawn: I did a little informal testing and my volunteer, who only speaks English, did not see the top right menu at all.

<yatil> +1 to I usually look top-right-ish for tanslations

Brent: I don't even notice when it is in English but if I land on a foreign language site, the first place I look for English version is on the top right.

<Lewis> +1 to looking in the upper right, but 2 places is a good idea

Laura: Also this is a good place to check metrics and see which is used - if the one on the left is found and used at all.

Shawn: The current mockup has languages separated with a vertical ine. In most examples online that I found, there is no separator.

<Chris> have to drop off, folks. Have a good weekend

Brent: So what is proposed is the vertical bar and the others are alternatives?

Shawn: I just picked a straw proposals just to have something to look at - not necessarily agreed about yet. After today we be less fluid and will start making decsions and recommendations. So now is a good time to speak up about preferences.
... sounds like no strng feelings?

<rjolly> no strong feelings - ok for the team to decide what looks/works best.

Brent: When I look at the one with the separators and then compare. Change fonts is one thing, skip is one things, seaprators make sense. Then the languages are about another thing, may be best not to have a separator between them.

Laura: I think that in the case without the pipes there is more space between the language labels. Either have the pipes and less padding or not have the pipes and increase the padding.

Shawn: One of the points was that it is easier to distinguish them especially when the characters are very different.

KrisAnne: Wondering if we can make the Skip and Change links could be in another link entirely?

Shawn: Yes, we can.The point is that the languages are getting lost. Something we could do is putting a translation icon here to break it up whether we leave the pipes or not.

KrisAnne: It would match if we wrap it to the breadcrumbs bar. They could visually look the same.
... if the lsit gets longer, it will need more space.

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say also promo for contributing translations on the left and to and to and to say different designs have different reasoning for different approaches and to

Eric: On the left menu, we have the opportunity to add the encouragement to contibuting translators. The nes we have looked at the designs good to remember that other sites have different reasons for different approaches and many do not have visiible skip links. Think about as the menu space gets smaller how it is impacted, don't want things to clash with logo. It is a design challenge to make it

work elegantly. Could consider an icon for the change and skip links...or other optons.

Shawn: This would be great to speak now since we are hoping the next iteration is "done."

<krisannekinney> the yellow box at the top won't be there right>

<krisannekinney> ?

<yatil> yes, krisannekinney, that is only on GitHub, so people don’t confuse it with the main Website.

Brent: On some examples you have noted that "this has been ruled out". If it does not say that, it is still open for consdieration?

Shawn: Yes there are pros and cons for each but some have been eliminated. Somthing in particular?
... Encourage you to use the wiki, look at the rationale and background and if you still think we shoulduse a specific approach, speak up.

Eric: Also consdier screen space, mobile etc

Shawn: Any other questions?
... can look through this during the rest of the meeting time so that the input is received ASAP. Thanks all.
... our project plan indicates that there is finalization of the UI next week and ready for usability testing. Ultimate goal is to have the UI done in November and the translations in place in December.

Brent: Do you have a list of how many languages that will be rolled out in the first release?

Shawn: Maybe only 3, could be 5, depending on when we release, who steps up. Some languages will have more translations.

Brent: I see the list of translators, are we trying to find people who can do high quality tranlations or is the W3C finding them? Do you need support from EO to identify them?

Shawn: W3C has a similar translation process.

Brent: My company has experienced translators, is it approapriate for me to seek volunteers?

Shawn: Yes totally appropriate. One of the Kuwaitis who attended noted that even those who know the language very well may not be familiar with the terminolgy and so will need reveiw. We will have a process of minimal review to ensure accuracy. So we will beta test the process with a handful of people.After that, we welcome EO help in getting translators.
... In current work we have need for review from EO contributors.

Sharron: https://knowbility.org/blog/2018/tpac/

<Vicki> (really sorry for arriving late :(

Brent: OK that's a wrap, thanks everyone and we will get an email out for the links to current surveys.

trackbot, end meeting

- DRAFT -

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

02 Nov 2018

Attendees

Contents

Face to Face TPAC

Outreach

W4TW and surveys

Translations

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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