WAI Translations User Perspectives

<shawn> Meeting: WAI Translations

Translations - Navigation in English or Translated when linked page is in English

<shawn> Discuss user perspectives around: "On a page with the main content translated, should the navigation to English pages be in English or translated?"

<shawn> Please read the issues, pros, cons, considerations at: <https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI_Translations#Language_of_site_nav_-_or_not_include_in_translations>

<shawn> https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/fr/ has most navigation in English and 3 in French

<shawn> https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/fr/ has most navigation in English and 3 in French

<shawn> Vicki: Last week the example I shared had most of pages translated.

<shawn> ... looked at practice throughout W3C site. Looking at what does work and what doesn't work and options for site that will have some pages in translated and some in English.

<shawn> ... With mixed langauge, no great solution. Given issues, have the navigation in the language of the page it goes to.

<shawn> ... Chrome offers to translate into another langauge.

<shawn> Sylvie: If links lead to English pagees, then no translate them. In secondary nav, when some in French and some in English, it is difficult for my brain to process the heirarchy - I can't tell what fits with what

<shawn> Not clear what things relate.

<shawn> ... [navigational heirarchy not make sense]

<yatil> [hears structure unclear when navigating on pages with mixed language – might be good to add some more separation]

<shawn> https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/

<shawn> https://w3c.github.io/wai-translation-playground/people-use-web/user-stories/

<shawn> Eric: If the hearder and footer translated, then would expect the main navigation to be translated.

<shawn> Sylvie: footer helpful to have tranlsated.

<shawn> Sylvie: if resources not in freanch, then don't tranlate them.

<shawn> Shawn: I was thinking if you went to a page that was in your language, but all the first links you saw/heard were in English, then you might think that you really didn't get to a translated page. Maybe, or not an issue?

<shawn> Sylvie & Eric: yes

<shawn> Eric: although if have some in Engligh and some in other langauge, it would look broken. So if translate some of header, do all.

<yatil> https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/want-to-learn-web-design-basics-start-here--cms-27341

<shawn> ... & Stephane - example under the H1. only the contnt area changes. That would make sense for me (as someone who read tranlated text). Except doesn't work well with our navigation.

[krisannekinney] i had the same trouble finding it too

<shawn> shawn looked and looked and didn't see the language. HTML, CSS etc buttons (tags?)

<shawn> vicki also didn't notice it at first

<shawn> Vicki: Search on French page search only on French pages?

<shawn> Eric: Not phase 1; possibly later.

<yatil> In German: Web-Barriefreiheits-Initiative WBI :-)

<shawn> Eric: tranlate ABout W3C WAI makes sense. maybe not Get INvovled because you need to have English langauge skills. Might have short summary in that langauge.

<Sylvie> WAI is a branding name so it should remain in English ;)

<shawn> +1

<shawn> Eric: same for About W3C WAI - only some tranlsted

<shawn> Vicki: Couple of paragraphs overview to translate.

<yatil> [Eric leaves]

<shawn> Shawn: If people translate top-level would that work?

<shawn> Vicki: one-stop uri for resources in my language

<shawn> scribe:krisannekinney

<shawn> KA: +1 to Vicki - New tab that listed what are pages that have been tranlated...

Shawn: planning to have to page that lists all resources in french... should that page have all resources or just the ones in french?

<shawn> old page:

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/Resources/

Shawn: old site was an annotated sitemap.
... on the page that lists the resources in the languages has a paragraph that is a summary. Do we also want to list English pages?
... when you're on a page that lists all the resources we have in French on that page will be navigation to go to the other languages.

Vicki: i think it would be too cluttered to have all of them on one page.

<shawn> example of page with all resources only some translated https://www.w3.org/International/articlelist.ar.php?changelang=ar

<Vicki> Yes, it is difficult to find...

very difficult to find.

<Sylvie> Yes I agree, difficult to find

Shawn: only list tranlated pages. encourage people to translate header links & top -level pages

<Vicki> +1

+1

<Vicki> +1

Shawn: finding the language - current proposal is to move the list of languages to the top right.

+1 to that

Shawn: in some configurations, you can have maybe something like 12 languages before it wraps (if remove "Change Text Size or Colors" which we might) so it won't take up to much space
... from research, almost all top right and a few left of centered. https://www.w3.org/wiki/WAI_Translations#Examples

<shawn> Summary:

<shawn> * Navigation links are in the language of the resulting page

<shawn> * Look into clearer hierarchy

<shawn> * Encourage translation of all of the header (partly to reinforce that indeed you are on a translated page)

<shawn> * Require translation of "Skip ton content"

<shawn> * Encourage translation of top-level nav pages (both for user experience of having the nav translated, and to give good overview, and to show what still need translation)

<shawn> * For Get Involved/Participating page, have short summary translated, then can have the rest in English. Maybe also for About W3C WAI page.

<shawn> * Even when *told* that the language was under the H1 on https://webdesign.tutsplus.com/articles/want-to-learn-web-design-basics-start-here--cms-27341 3 out of 3 people had trouble finding it visually

<shawn> * Page that lists translations in X language only lists the pages in that language. consider annotting with summary paragraph

<shawn> * +1s for latest propose to list the languages top right

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Succeeded: s/Page that lists translations in X language only lists the pages in that language/Page that lists translations in X language only lists the pages in that language. consider annotting with summary paragraph/
Present: Vicki Sylvie Shawn KrisAnne EricE
Found Scribe: krisannekinney
Inferring ScribeNick: krisannekinney
Found Date: 30 Oct 2018
People with action items: 

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