SV_MEETING_TITLE -- 24 Oct 2018

<tzviya> scribenick: dka

[introductions]

<boaz> o/

Tzviya: agenda -

<azaroth> Is there a scribe?

[discussion of agenda]

<tzviya> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/fm2478xq/

<natasha> Bullying

<natasha> Time Zone challenges

<natasha> Documentation and best practices developed by individuals and WGs

<natasha> Language barriers

<natasha> Chair training and resources

<natasha> Cultural differences

tzviya: short overview of our groups and repos, then we open to discussion
... pwe community group - started a few weeks ago - took over from pwe taskforce. Focused on maintaining the code of ethics and prthe cofess thaional conduct. How can we make this a better place to work, how can we improve things? already at this meeting some people have pointed out that

<tzviya> https://www.w3.org/community/pwe/

tzviya: out that the code of conduct might not be as robust as it means to be. We are shifting this code to respec.
... we'd like documentation about why you'd like to see changes if you'd like to see changes.

<natasha> https://github.com/w3c/wg-effectiveness

Natasha: the working group effectiveness task force - we were born because one particular working group was not being effective.
... so that was one of our topics - what is effective. Reaching recommendation status ... getting things deployed.
... we have a long document that details things that working groups may come up against ... e.g. lack of implementers,
... strong personalities ...
... I named the document the Common Standards Issues document.
... also focused on chair training. Not a lot of enthusiasm around training.
... we are now looking at how we can improve info available.
... we have also looked at a few other items such as testing. promoting it.
... getting that into the process document.
... lastly we looked into ombudspeople.
... the largest piece of work will be to improve the info on /guide
... a lot of chairs have said they would like one place to go to find out this information.
... the goal for this session is to find other things we should look into.

Marcos: if we do have an ombudsperson involved what enforcement power would they have?

Tzviya: we've had a few discussions - first there is a desire to have more people. we're aware there needs to be more training. there's an org of ombudspeople we could reach out to.
... for training materials.

<natasha> https://github.com/w3c/wg-effectiveness/blob/master/ombudsperson.md

Judyb: for years I was on w3c management - for some of that time as the only woman - so I became aware of the need. The code of ethics and professional conduct tries to cover a range of issues but one concern
... that has arisen is about this - for the 5, or currently 4, ombudspeople have they had training, are there procedures, etc... at the moment, no. I met someone at an international org
... of ombudspeople. There is a whole code of practice. there are different types of ombudspeople. If there are any kinds of problems in an org... there is a need for more clarity.

Angel: i am the ombudsperson for 4 years - i got some initial training, i handled a couple cases. One category is misbehaviour 1-2-1 like harassment. One categroy can be
... bad behaviour in a working group setting.
... still the ombudsperson might not have any power.
... the only thing we can do is tak.
... sometimes people don't know who to contact.

<JudyB> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/

Angel: e.g. improper comments in a working group.
... the wg had an expectation that the ombudsperson has powers... but we solved that issue by working with the chairs.
... the ombudsperson needs to have some mechanism / power to make some decisions.
... someone needs to make the call.
... we need some really professional training. sometimes talking doesn't help.

<Zakim> Rachel, you wanted to talk about w3cInclusion discussion topics from Tues

<boaz> ombuddies

<ada> +1

<cwilso> ^^^ Tess' idea

Rachel: one of the things that came up during w3c women currently known as w3c inclusion - was the need for anonymity in approaching the ombudspeople.

RESOLUTION: Ombudsperson shall now be known as Ombuddies

Rachel: so there is no fear of retaliation.

OBJECT

Natasha: we made a small things which details some of these issues.
... there should be some external people as well as w3c staff.

<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to +1 Angel's observation of WG vs harassment

Azaroth: connection between anti-harassment policy ... and norms. separating interpersonal behavior and technical disagreement.

Tzviya: someone suggested pwe put together a "behavior norms" document.

<azaroth> One example code of conduct: https://iiif.io/event/conduct/

Tzviya: some things are built into the way we work like the queue.
... e.g. rapid fire comments on gthub - some find overwhelming, upsetting, offensive.
... we might want to consider documenting.

Marcos: it would be good to have people at other orgs to go to as well. e.g. aggressive behaviour on github. having a contact at the memer organisation for behaviour about someone.

JudyB: issue of confidentiality - very complex - especially in reports of sexual harassment - i suggest reading the science. i shared one link.
... majority of people do not report.
... including to police -
... majority reason that people do not report is fear of retaliation.
... one of the things that happens the most is retaliation.
... research also shows that codes of conduct are not helping much yet- what is being recommended is a more holistic approach.
... i support the point about confidentiality, but with cautions....
... the draft set of procedures said the person who an alligation was made against didn't have the right to know they were being investigated. Also not fair.

<Zakim> cwilso, you wanted to suggestion multi-tier "ombuds"

JudyB: the code itself has been used as a way to retaliate.

Amy: in ref to github - with student communities on github - we have a whole training system for communities in repository and ways to include a code of conduct.
... i will post a link to that.

Boaz: on chair training - does that include training for reading specifications?

Natasha: there is no chair training at the moment. [history of some efforts] I think we put the effort on cleaning up /guide.
... i'd love to take text and videos in /guide and then send that to chairs.
... rather than more formal sessions.

Boaz: we've been training folks from underrepresented groups into test writing and spec reading.
... we'd love to use that or introduce that into the process.
... The other thing - in testing we get a lot of people saying "testing the web platform is a good way to get started" - that desire needs some support, learning how to read specs and the whole standards process.

Marcos: it would be good to hear from more people - i'd like something to happen - a buddy system or something.
... it would be good to do more of that training.

Natasha: good point.

Marcos: we (w3c) do it differently from other standards orgs...

Tzviya: let's talk about cultural differences. languages, working styles, positive-work-environment, time zones issues... how can we make it better?

<boaz> scribe boaz

<boaz> scribe: boaz

<natasha> scribe: natasha

<boaz> scribe: boaz

<marcosc> scribe fight!!!!

dka: regarding timezones, we have had some success in the TAG (we have ppl in japan cali, uk, ny, austrailia) we are moving to a three times weekly schedule, and then rolling through those three calls. we publish a calendar feed. thats the only way this works. we do this during the 1/2 the year where timezones line up.
... I found it a bit frustrating and nonpositive that I get a lot of push back from people when I talk about that, because of the technology we use to schedule this.

tzviya: I had a similar experience.

dka: it is because the w3c team is stuck in an academic way of working and have not caught up with modern calendaring

<dka> Amy: again from experience at github - async communications training - peeople learn how to speak so you can work effectively across time zones.

<scribe> scribe: dka

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: happens a lot with campus experts.
... constant reminders.
... every meeting in zoom which means we can record them as well as the chat.

Tzviya: zoom is also accessibile.

<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask about tri-weekly shift

Azaroth: question about rolling schedule... how does it work in practice?

<boaz> scribe: boaz

dka: what it means that every three weeks you have a call at an annoying time

<scribe> scribe: dka

Tess: CSS wg has a similar pattern - first cal every month is at an APAC friendly time and agenda is crafted with that in mind -
... it works OK.

Angel: about the culture difference - years go when I attended I was told a code of conduct was "be excellent to eachother" i was intimidated.
... since we are revising this code, we need to make sure that it can't be used as a weapon to harass people with.

Tzviya: if anyone has examples of non-western codes of conduct, please let us know.

<Zakim> JudyB, you wanted to comment on Webex and to comment on Webex and its relation to a (potentially) positive work environment

Tzviya: to the PWE issue tracker.

<tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/PWETF

JudyB: side note on webex. we get webex for free because of MIT. there are many accessibilty and usability problems- we were not getting...
... responsivness from WebEX.
... we may still have an opportunity to see what can be addressed, via a new Webex contact who actively wants usability and accessibility feedback on Webex and has committed to address anything he can..
... i want to try to help with this.

<astearns> https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExFAQ#Where_can_I_open_and_track_issues_with_MIT_WebEx.3F

Chris: i got on the queue to 2nd dan's comments about b rotating times. if it's in a really bad time then you (as a participent) resent it.
... other comment is about codes of conducts: sometimes there are particular issues that conferences are trying to address. I've seen that at google.
... our google code of conduct I like ...

<tantek> Some research on codes of conduct: https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct-examples

Chris: it would be nice to look at other codes of conducts from other regions and cultural backgrounds.

Boaz: i wanted to come back to accountability.

Jo: wanted to bring up on cultures - there are not enough people of color in the room.

<ada> Here is the CoC we put together for the Immersive Web Working Group:

<ada> https://immersive-web.github.io/homepage/code-of-conduct.html

Marcos: google summer of code - and outreachy - as a community we need to encourage more people to bring in interns. that will help to bring more diversity to w3c.
... when people join the wg, we need to encourgae and bring them up to be a contributor.

<boaz> outreachy has been great at Bocoup

tzviya: sometimes at the org i was at we had specgen meetings.

<boaz> we have had a lot of success with outreachy graduates. maybe we could talk to them about a standards track.

wendy: making sure we're getting more voices - toastmasters - when someone new joins a group there is a strong suggestion to make sure they don't just feel like a guest.
... the spirt of it is to make sure the person attending is engaged and wants to participate.
... if you notice someone is good at contributing verbally.. engaging with them directly...

Tantek: i have experienced as a wg chair some negativity that is not harassment but more toxicisty of attitudes. We tried to discourage - there was still some attitude of arrogance.
... "i have xx years of exp"... etc...

[general view in the room that everyone has experienced]

Tzviya: we don't have time to discuss... it gets to the heart

Dan: calling it out as bullying is important.

<Zakim> ada, you wanted to say improving w3c diversity

Ada: back to the issue of diversity in w3c - part of the issue comes from being unable to tackle it in the way you would for a normal conference. the people here have been nominated by their companies or they are the AC members for their orgs.
... the W3C should take a more active approach - and make sure that candidates from underrepresented backgrounds know that they will be supported...
... as well as being underrepresented in their own companies / society.
... if someone from an underrrpereented background - we need to do more than net neutral - e.g. child care, pay for travel, attend at the same level as a more privileged person.

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

24 Oct 2018

Attendees

Contents

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

Scribe.perl diagnostic output